In article , basicallyblues says...
>
>
>
>>He didn't claim to prove the Nicene Trinity in that post. Why should
>he
>>have? All he needed to do is show that your claim was WRONG. And that
>>he did quite neatly.
>
>No he didn't.

Yes, he did. You are hiding your head in the sand to keep from seeing the truth
of this.

> The Nicene Trinity *is* the trinity

Of course...

> so you will see the
>ante-Nicene writers did not believe such a thing.

But this is a non-sequitur. Not only that, it is false. As Steve already pointed
out, both Ignatius and Irenaeus clearly spoke of Trinity. And their language
differed from the "nicene Trinity" only in lacking a clear way to express
Trinity without sounding like subordinationism. The same could be said of
Origen.


> Once we talk about
>what the trinity is we can talk about why the 1st and 2nd century
>Christians did not teach it.

So far, you have refused to "talk about what the Trinity is", resorting to
wildly contentious _mis_statements of what it is instead, claiming, for example,
that it is 'pagan'. But this false claim was clearly disproved by Orign in
Contra Celsum.

>>This obsession wiht 'definitions' is itself unbiblical. The biblical
>authors
>>assumed a lot of background knowledge. They assumed, for example,
>>that the
>>reader knew that "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" is a
reference to the
>>Trinity.
>>Thus:
>>(Mt 28:19)
>
>>was clearly recognized as a reference to the Trinity.
>
>this is the epitome of circular reasoning.

No, it is not. You haven't read any history of the Liturgy, have you?

> You are assuming what they
>assumed and then you provide an opinion of scripture to support an
>unproven claim.

No, I am referring to the history of the Liturgy. To do so is NOT "circular
reasoning".

Someday, you should try to learn the difference.

>
>(((   Read http://srcbs.org for details about this group BEFORE you post.   )))


-- 
---------------------------
Subudcat se sibi ut haereat Deo
quidquid boni habet, tribuat illi a quo factus est.
(St. Augustine, Ser. 96)

((( s.r.c.b-s is a moderated group.  All posts are approved by a moderator. )))
(((   Read http://srcbs.org for details about this group BEFORE you post.   )))


--- UseNet To RIME Gateway {at} 3/21/05 7:59:13 AM ---