>What you wrote IS evil.

And then it happened: The pot called the kettle "black".
The irony is that you are an idolator with your pagan trinity and yet
you accuse me.  I'm not surprised (see 2 Cor. 4:4 for details)

>I didn't say the word meant exclusively a supernatural vision. Show me
>where I did.
>Then why are you spending all the rest of this post pretending that is
_is_
>exclusively so used?

Once again you are misrepresenting me. You really need to pay
attention. I did not say it was the only meaning of the word. What I
showed- in which you had no answer (typical of trinitarians- once you
correct them they jump to something else where they feel they have more
ground). Nevertheless, show me where "horama" is used outside of a
supernatural vision. I know of no place in the New Testament.

> If you check the usage of "horama" you will clearly see
>the word is used as a supernatural vision.

>Not always. See the LSJ citation I already gave you. More important,
in >all the
>examples you give, the 'supernatural' visions were of truly existing
things.

LOL. Oh really? So the "vessel" that Peter saw "descending
like a great
linen sheet...in it were all sorts of four-footed creatures and
creeping things of the earth and birds of heaven" at Acts 10:11, 12
truly existed? You really believe these  animals truly descended in
fleshly form from heaven during this vision? Matthew you are having a
vision of your own here. You are simply trying to hold onto a incorrect
theory here.

>No. THey were really there, and they were really alive.

Nope they were not and I see you conveniently ignored this verse from
my post:

"Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven, but the Son of man" (John
3:13)

NO MAN went to heaven before Jesus and the way into the heavens had not
even been opened up before Jesus (Hebrews 9:8) Moses and Elijah did not
go to heaven. Simple as that. UNless you are calling Jesus a liar.

>That is quite irrelevant. No one claimed David went to heaven before
the
>"harrowing of hell".

Huh? So David was in "hell"? What do you mean by
"Hell"? David went to
Hades, which is nothing more than gravedom.

>That does NOT follow from the verse you cite. Did you even look at it?
all >it says is:

withdraw that one. I was thinking of something else.

>Elijah did NOT die and ascend to heaven when he was "taken up". Elijah
>does not die at this time, nor does he go into the invisible spirit
>realm, but he is transferred to another prophetic assignment. (John
>3:13) This is shown by the fact that Elisha does not hold any period
of
>mourning for his master. A number of years after his ascension in the
>windstorm Elijah is still alive and active as a prophet, this time to
>the king of Judah. Because of the wicked course taken by King Jehoram
>of Judah, Elijah writes him a letter expressing Jehovah's
>condemnation, which is fulfilled shortly thereafter.-2Ch 21:12-15;

>I have already refuted all these ridiculous claims in another post in
this >same thread.

No you didnt so they are quoted here again.

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