> From: "Rich"
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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> I choose a real world example that supports my point.
Indeed. & I could pick one which destroys it. Such is the maleability
of "linux".
> You jump =
> between multiple imaginary scenarios and speculations trying to support =
> your claims that despite redhat taking responsibility for the security =
> flaws in its linux product, you assert that they have none.
What, imaginary things such as MS breaking EU anti-trust law & thus
facing sanctions e.g.:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/02/24/HNECmicrosoftsell_1.html
"European Commissioner for competition Mario Monti may demand that
Microsoft Corp. sell two versions of its ubiquitous operating system,
Windows, in Europe: one with Media Player inside as it does at present, and
another with the music and video playing software stripped out and sold
separately, people close to the case said on Tuesday.
Monti may also demand that Microsoft itself should propose "within a
few months of a ruling" what Windows computer code it should reveal in
order to make the operating system fully interoperable with rival software
makers' programs for servers, which drive networks of PCs, one of the
people said.
These likely remedies will come attached to a negative ruling that brands
Microsoft an abusive monopolist, unless a settlement is reached during the
next month to six weeks. A negative ruling is expected to carry with it a
fine of at least $100 million. "
& from the same article
"Microsoft has argued that unbundling Media Player from Windows would
prevent the operating system from working properly. It also fears the
precedent that would be set if it did agree to separate Media Player from
Windows."
So media player is part of Windows as without it the OS won't work properly.
& then:
"Future software products, such as an Internet search engine which
Microsoft plans to launch to compete with the Google search engine, count
on the bundling business model Microsoft has employed with all its most
successful software products including Internet Explorer, Word and Outlook
Express. "
Interesting that they lump word in with IE & OE...
Oh &
"The draft decision may order Microsoft to decide what must be
revealed about Windows in order to ensure interoperability. "If the
company fails to comply with the order it would open itself up to legal
action in any national court in the European Union," one person close
to the talks said, adding: "A negative ruling would set a dangerous
legal precedent for Microsoft.""
Not just any national court....every national court..
Crikey all these imaginery EU commisioners & imaginery MS monopolistic
abuse & imaginery MS bundling of imaginery "products" into
their imaginery OS in order to quash imaginery competition...
Will the MS Anti-Virus addition to XP be crippled or can MS expect the EU
to add AV to the list of competing products?
Adam
> Rich
> "Adam Flinton" wrote in message =
> news:50932d.5836fb{at}harborwebs.com...
>> From: "Rich"
>> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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>> charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
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>> We are discussing redhat which does brand software developed by =3D
>> others and claims rights to this branding. If you want to back =
> peddle =3D
>> from your earlier claims, try to keep to the subject.
> ROFLMAO ....you ask someone to "try to keep to the subject"? You're =
> as usual
> trying to divert & make up subjects via changing thread titles to suit =
> your
> position.
> You chose the Red Hat Distribution as "linux" not anyone else.=20
> You then used 3'rd party applications (which run on multiple OS'es) as =
> examples
> where there are vulnerabilites in "linux".
> You then claimed that becuase Red Hat bundles those applications, =
> somehow RH
> gained the copyright to those programs.=20
> You have then totally failed to explain why such a thing is not =
> applicable to
> Microsoft OS'es.
> However your evasion of simple questions is so noticeable that you =
> must have
> some real problems explaining if MS is going to try & seize the =
> copyright of
> any competing products the EU might require MS bundles along with =
> Windows.
> Adam
>> Rich
>> "Adam Flinton" wrote
in message =3D
>> news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs.com...
>>> From: "Rich"
>>> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>> ------=3D3D_NextPart_000_00D8_01C3F993.E9ED7D30
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;
>>> charset=3D3D"iso-8859-1"
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>> redhat customizes many of the software that they include in their =
> =3D
>> =3D3D
>>> product. They include redhat branding and make other changes as =
> =3D
>> they =3D3D
>>> see fit. I have no idea whether they customize gaim but even if =
> =3D
>> they =3D3D
>>> did Adam needs to look to see if there is a copyright notice on =3D
>> redhat =3D3D
>>> linux and not some independent release of gaim that has nothing to =
> =3D
>> do =3D3D
>>> with the one for which redhat took responsibility because it was =
> =3D3D
>>> included with redhat's product. redhat does include a copyright =
> =3D
>> notice =3D3D
>>> in its product and it shouuld apply to everything in its product.
>> Blimey I know MS has a history of putting it's copyright onto other =
> =3D
>> people's
>> work (such as doublespace Stac) but this is amazing.
>> There is not an "independant release of gaim", merely a
release of =
> =3D
>> gaim. Gaim
>> is owned by the people who wrote it.=3D20
>> So let's see if I've got this right, if Sony of Dell bundle Windows =
> =3D
>> with their
>> product then they get to put their copyright onto Windows?
>> & if the MS-EU deal resolves to including competing products then MS =
> =3D
>> will put
>> it's copyright onto GAIM, Mozilla, Real player etc?
>> That should make some lawyers very rich.
>> Adam
>> ------=3D_NextPart_000_0043_01C3FA5A.19F03880
>> Content-Type: text/html;
>> charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>
>>
>> > charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> We are discussing =
> redhat =3D
>> which does=3D20
>> brand software developed by others and claims rights to this =3D
>> branding. If=3D20
>> you want to back peddle from your earlier claims, try to keep =3D
>> to the=3D20
>> subject.
>>
>> Rich
>>
>> > style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
> =3D
>> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>> "Adam Flinton" <> =3D
>> =
>
href=3D3D"Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com=">mailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com=
> >> >=3D20
>> wrote in message > =3D
>> =
>
href=3D3D"news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs.com">news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborweb=
> s.=3D
>> com...>=3D20
>> From: "Rich" <{at}>> This is
a multi-part message in =
> MIME=3D20
>> format.> =
> ------=3D3D_NextPart_000_00D8_01C3F993.E9ED7D30>=3D20
>> Content-Type: text/plain;> =
> charset=3D3D"iso-8859-1">=3D20
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable> redhat =
> customizes =3D
>> many of=3D20
>> the software that they include in their =3D3D>
product. =
> =3D
>> They include=3D20
>> redhat branding and make other changes as they
=3D3D> see =3D
>> fit. I have=3D20
>> no idea whether they customize gaim but even if they
=3D3D> =
> did =3D
>> Adam needs=3D20
>> to look to see if there is a copyright notice on redhat =
> =3D3D> =3D
>> linux and=3D20
>> not some independent release of gaim that has nothing to do =3D
>> =3D3D> with the=3D20
>> one for which redhat took responsibility because it was =
> =3D3D> =3D
>> included=3D20
>> with redhat's product. redhat does include a copyright notice =
> =3D
>> =3D3D>=3D20
>> in its product and it shouuld apply to everything in its=3D20
>> product.Blimey I know MS has a history of
putting it's =3D
>> copyright onto=3D20
>> other people'swork (such as doublespace <>
Stac) but this =
> is =3D
>> amazing.There is not an "independant
release of gaim", =
> merely =3D
>> a=3D20
>> release of gaim. Gaimis owned by the people who wrote it. =3D
>> So let's=3D20
>> see if I've got this right, if Sony of Dell bundle Windows with=3D20
>> theirproduct then they get to put their copyright onto=3D20
>> Windows?& if the MS-EU deal resolves
to including =3D
>> competing=3D20
>> products then MS will putit's copyright onto GAIM, Mozilla, Real =
> =3D
>> player=3D20
>> etc?That should make some lawyers very=3D20
>> rich.Adam
> ------=_NextPart_000_00C6_01C3FAB4.98875890
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>
>
>
>
> I
choose a real world =
> example that=20
> supports my point. You jump between multiple imaginary scenarios =
> and=20
> speculations trying to support your claims that despite redhat taking=20
> responsibility for the security flaws in its linux product, you =
> assert that=20
> they have none.
>
> Rich
>
> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> "Adam Flinton" < =
>
href=3D"Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.commailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com
>> >=20
> wrote in message =
>
href=3D"news:50932d.5836fb{at}harborwebs.com">news:50932d.5836fb{at}harborwebs.=
> com...>=20
> From: "Rich" <{at}>> This is a
multi-part message in MIME=20
> format.>
------=3D_NextPart_000_0043_01C3FA5A.19F03880>=20
> Content-Type: text/plain;>
charset=3D"iso-8859-1">=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable> We are
discussing =
> redhat=20
> which does brand software developed by =3D> others and claims =
> rights to=20
> this branding. If you want to back peddle
=3D> from your =
> earlier=20
> claims, try to keep to the subject.ROFLMAO ....you
ask someone =
> to "try=20
> to keep to the subject"? You're as
usualtrying to divert =
> & make=20
> up subjects via changing thread titles to suit =
> yourposition.You=20
> chose the Red Hat Distribution as "linux" not anyone else.
You =
> then used=20
> 3'rd party applications (which run on multiple OS'es) as =
> exampleswhere=20
> there are vulnerabilites in "linux".You then
claimed that becuase =
> Red Hat=20
> bundles those applications, somehow RHgained the copyright to =
> those=20
> programs. You have then totally failed to explain why such a thing =
> is not=20
> applicable toMicrosoft OS'es.However
your evasion of =
> simple=20
> questions is so noticeable that you must havesome real problems =
> explaining=20
> if MS is going to try & seize the copyright ofany competing =
> products=20
> the EU might require MS bundles along with =
> Windows.Adam>=20
> Rich> "Adam Flinton" < =
>
href=3D"Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.commailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com
>> >=20
> wrote in message =3D> =
>
href=3D"news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs.com">news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs.=
> com...>>=20
> From: "Rich" <{at}>>>
This is a multi-part message in =
> MIME=20
> format.>> =
> ------=3D3D_NextPart_000_00D8_01C3F993.E9ED7D30>>=20
> Content-Type: text/plain;>> =
> charset=3D3D"iso-8859-1">>=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable>> redhat =
> customizes many=20
> of the software that they include in their =3D> =
> =3D3D>>=20
> product. They include redhat branding and make other changes as=20
> =3D> they =3D3D>> see
fit. I have no idea =
> whether they=20
> customize gaim but even if =3D> they
=3D3D>> did Adam =
> needs to=20
> look to see if there is a copyright notice on =3D> redhat =
> =3D3D>>=20
> linux and not some independent release of gaim that has nothing to =
> =3D>=20
> do =3D3D>> with the one for which redhat took
responsibility =
> because=20
> it was =3D3D>> included with redhat's
product. redhat =
> does=20
> include a copyright =3D> notice
=3D3D>> in its =
> product and it=20
> shouuld apply to everything in its product.> Blimey I know MS =
> has a=20
> history of putting it's copyright onto other =3D> =
> people's> work=20
> (such as doublespace <> Stac) but this is
amazing.> There =
> is not=20
> an "independant release of gaim", merely a release of
=3D> =
> gaim.=20
> Gaim> is owned by the people who wrote
it.=3D20> So =
> let's see if=20
> I've got this right, if Sony of Dell bundle Windows
=3D> with=20
> their> product then they get to put their copyright onto=20
> Windows?> & if the MS-EU deal resolves to including =
> competing=20
> products then MS =3D> will put> it's
copyright onto =
> GAIM, Mozilla,=20
> Real player etc?> That should make some lawyers very =
> rich.>=20
> Adam>
------=3D_NextPart_000_0043_01C3FA5A.19F03880> =
> Content-Type:=20
> text/html;>
charset=3D"iso-8859-1"> =
> Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20
> quoted-printable> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC
"-//W3C//DTD HTML =
> 4.0=20
> Transitional//EN">>
<HTML><HEAD>> =
> <META=20
> http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html;
=3D>=20
> charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">> <META
content=3D3D"MSHTML =
> 6.00.3790.118"=20
> name=3D3DGENERATOR>>
<STYLE></STYLE>>=20
> </HEAD>> <BODY
bgColor=3D3D#ffffff>>=20
> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial
size=3D3D2> =
> We are=20
> discussing redhat =3D> which
does=3D20> brand software =
> developed by=20
> others and claims rights to this =3D> branding. =
> If=3D20>=20
> you want to back peddle from your earlier claims, try to keep =
> =3D>=20
> to the=3D20>
subject.</FONT></DIV>> =
> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
>
size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>>
=
> <DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial
size=3D3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>>=20
> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
>
size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>>=20
> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20> style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; =
> PADDING-LEFT: 5px;=20
> MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; =
> MARGIN-RIGHT:=20
> 0px">> <DIV>"Adam
Flinton" <<A=3D20> =
> =3D>=20
> href=3D3D" =
>
href=3D'Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.commailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com
>
'>mailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com</=
> =3D>>=20
> >=3D20> wrote in message
<A=3D20> =3D> =
> href=3D3D" =
>
href=3D'news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs.com">news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs'=
>>
news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs.com">news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs.=
> =3D>=20
>
com</A>...</DIV>>=3D20>
From: "Rich"=20
> <{at}><BR>> This is a
multi-part message in=20
> MIME=3D20> format.<BR>>=20
> =
>
------=3D3D_NextPart_000_00D8_01C3F993.E9ED7D30<BR>>=3D20> >=20
> Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>>=20
>
charset=3D3D"iso-8859-1"<BR>>=3D20>
=
> Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20
> quoted-printable<BR>> redhat customizes
=3D> many=20
> of=3D20> the software that they include in their =
> =3D3D<BR>>=20
> product. =3D> They
include=3D20> redhat =
> branding and make=20
> other changes as they =3D3D<BR>> see
=3D> =
> fit. I=20
> have=3D20> no idea whether they customize gaim but
even if they =
> =3D3D<BR>> did =3D> Adam
needs=3D20> to =
> look to see if=20
> there is a copyright notice on redhat =3D3D<BR>> =
> =3D> linux=20
> and=3D20> not some independent release of gaim that
has nothing =
> to do=20
> =3D> =3D3D<BR>> with
the=3D20> one for =
> which redhat took=20
> responsibility because it was =3D3D<BR>>
=3D>=20
> included=3D20> with redhat's product.
redhat does =
> include a=20
> copyright notice =3D>
=3D3D<BR>>=3D20> in =
> its product and=20
> it shouuld apply to everything in its=3D20>=20
> product.<BR><BR>Blimey I know MS has a
history of putting =
> it's=20
> =3D> copyright onto=3D20> other
people's<BR>work =
> (such as=20
> doublespace <> Stac) but this is =3D>=20
> amazing.<BR><BR>There is not an
"independant release of =
> gaim",=20
> merely =3D> a=3D20> release of gaim.
Gaim<BR>is =
> owned by the=20
> people who wrote it. =3D>
<BR><BR>So =
> let's=3D20> see if=20
> I've got this right, if Sony of Dell bundle Windows
with=3D20>=20
> their<BR>product then they get to put their copyright =
> onto=3D20>=20
> Windows?<BR><BR>& if the MS-EU
deal resolves to =
> including=20
> =3D> competing=3D20> products then MS will =
> put<BR>it's=20
> copyright onto GAIM, Mozilla, Real =3D>
player=3D20>=20
> etc?<BR><BR>That should make some lawyers =
> very=3D20>=20
> =
>
rich.<BR><BR>Adam</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>=
> ;
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