From: "Rich"
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Still having trouble remembering the topic being discussed. The best =
you can do is claim that you could pick an example yet so far you have =
not and don't appear as if you will ever do so. As I wrote several =
times, you are own your own arguing that the security vulnerabilities in =
redhat's linux 9 product for which they took responsiblity are ones for =
which they should not. They disagree with you.
I'd be willing to accept that your employer sun disclaims =
responsibility for the software they ship for which they don't own the =
copyright but would still insist on your providing a reference to a sun =
statement to this affect instead of assuming that your employer agrees =
with your irresponsible position.
Rich
"Adam Flinton" wrote in message =
news:f09341.592bd5{at}harborwebs.com...
> From: "Rich"
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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> I choose a real world example that supports my point.=20
Indeed. & I could pick one which destroys it. Such is the maleability =
of
"linux".
> You jump =3D
> between multiple imaginary scenarios and speculations trying to =
support =3D
> your claims that despite redhat taking responsibility for the =
security =3D
> flaws in its linux product, you assert that they have none.
What, imaginary things such as MS breaking EU anti-trust law & thus =
facing
sanctions e.g.:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/02/24/HNECmicrosoftsell_1.html
"European Commissioner for competition Mario Monti may demand that =
Microsoft
Corp. sell two versions of its ubiquitous operating system, Windows, =
in Europe:
one with Media Player inside as it does at present, and another with =
the music
and video playing software stripped out and sold separately, people =
close to
the case said on Tuesday.
Monti may also demand that Microsoft itself should propose "within a =
few months
of a ruling" what Windows computer code it should reveal in order to =
make the
operating system fully interoperable with rival software makers' =
programs for
servers, which drive networks of PCs, one of the people said.
These likely remedies will come attached to a negative ruling that =
brands
Microsoft an abusive monopolist, unless a settlement is reached during =
the next
month to six weeks. A negative ruling is expected to carry with it a =
fine of at
least $100 million. "
& from the same article
"Microsoft has argued that unbundling Media Player from Windows would =
prevent
the operating system from working properly. It also fears the =
precedent that
would be set if it did agree to separate Media Player from Windows."
So media player is part of Windows as without it the OS won't work =
properly.
& then:
"Future software products, such as an Internet search engine which =
Microsoft
plans to launch to compete with the Google search engine, count on the =
bundling
business model Microsoft has employed with all its most successful =
software
products including Internet Explorer, Word and Outlook Express. "
Interesting that they lump word in with IE & OE...
Oh &=20
"The draft decision may order Microsoft to decide what must be =
revealed about
Windows in order to ensure interoperability. "If the company fails to =
comply
with the order it would open itself up to legal action in any national =
court in
the European Union," one person close to the talks said, adding: "A =
negative
ruling would set a dangerous legal precedent for Microsoft.""
Not just any national court....every national court..
Crikey all these imaginery EU commisioners & imaginery MS monopolistic =
abuse &
imaginery MS bundling of imaginery "products" into their imaginery OS =
in order
to quash imaginery competition...
Will the MS Anti-Virus addition to XP be crippled or can MS expect the =
EU to
add AV to the list of competing products?
Adam
> Rich
> "Adam Flinton" wrote
in message =3D
> news:50932d.5836fb{at}harborwebs.com...
>> From: "Rich"
>> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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>> Content-Type: text/plain;
>> charset=3D3D"iso-8859-1"
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>> We are discussing redhat which does brand software developed by =
=3D3D
>> others and claims rights to this branding. If you want to back =3D
> peddle =3D3D
>> from your earlier claims, try to keep to the subject.
> ROFLMAO ....you ask someone to "try to keep to the
subject"? You're =
=3D
> as usual
> trying to divert & make up subjects via changing thread titles to =
suit =3D
> your
> position.
> You chose the Red Hat Distribution as "linux" not anyone else.=3D20
> You then used 3'rd party applications (which run on multiple OS'es) =
as =3D
> examples
> where there are vulnerabilites in "linux".
> You then claimed that becuase Red Hat bundles those applications, =
=3D
> somehow RH
> gained the copyright to those programs.=3D20
> You have then totally failed to explain why such a thing is not =3D
> applicable to
> Microsoft OS'es.
> However your evasion of simple questions is so noticeable that you =
=3D
> must have
> some real problems explaining if MS is going to try & seize the =3D
> copyright of
> any competing products the EU might require MS bundles along with =
=3D
> Windows.
> Adam
>> Rich
>> "Adam Flinton"
wrote in message =3D3D
>> news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs.com...
>>> From: "Rich"
>>> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>> ------=3D3D3D_NextPart_000_00D8_01C3F993.E9ED7D30
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;
>>> charset=3D3D3D"iso-8859-1"
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>> redhat customizes many of the software that they include in their =
=3D
> =3D3D
>> =3D3D3D
>>> product. They include redhat branding and make other changes as =
=3D
> =3D3D
>> they =3D3D3D
>>> see fit. I have no idea whether they customize gaim but even if =
=3D
> =3D3D
>> they =3D3D3D
>>> did Adam needs to look to see if there is a copyright notice on =
=3D3D
>> redhat =3D3D3D
>>> linux and not some independent release of gaim that has nothing to =
=3D
> =3D3D
>> do =3D3D3D
>>> with the one for which redhat took responsibility because it was =
=3D
> =3D3D3D
>>> included with redhat's product. redhat does include a copyright =
=3D
> =3D3D
>> notice =3D3D3D
>>> in its product and it shouuld apply to everything in its product.
>> Blimey I know MS has a history of putting it's copyright onto other =
=3D
> =3D3D
>> people's
>> work (such as doublespace Stac) but this is amazing.
>> There is not an "independant release of gaim", merely
a release of =
=3D
> =3D3D
>> gaim. Gaim
>> is owned by the people who wrote it.=3D3D20
>> So let's see if I've got this right, if Sony of Dell bundle Windows =
=3D
> =3D3D
>> with their
>> product then they get to put their copyright onto Windows?
>> & if the MS-EU deal resolves to including competing products then =
MS =3D
> =3D3D
>> will put
>> it's copyright onto GAIM, Mozilla, Real player etc?
>> That should make some lawyers very rich.
>> Adam
>> ------=3D3D_NextPart_000_0043_01C3FA5A.19F03880
>> Content-Type: text/html;
>> charset=3D3D"iso-8859-1"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>
>>
>> > charset=3D3D3Diso-8859-1">
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> We are =
discussing =3D
> redhat =3D3D
>> which does=3D3D20
>> brand software developed by others and claims rights to this =3D3D
>> branding. If=3D3D20
>> you want to back peddle from your earlier claims, try to keep =3D3D
>> to the=3D3D20
>> subject.
>>
>> Rich
>>
>> > style=3D3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; =3D
> =3D3D
>> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>> "Adam Flinton" <> =3D3D
>> =3D
> =
href=3D3D3D"Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.c=">mailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.c=
om=3D
> >> >=3D3D20
>> wrote in message > =3D3D
>> =3D
> =
href=3D3D3D"news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs.com">news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborw=
eb=3D
> s.=3D3D
>> com...>=3D3D20
>> From: "Rich" <{at}>> This
is a multi-part message in =3D
> MIME=3D3D20
>> format.> =3D
> ------=3D3D3D_NextPart_000_00D8_01C3F993.E9ED7D30>=3D3D20
>> Content-Type: text/plain;> =3D
> charset=3D3D3D"iso-8859-1">=3D3D20
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable> redhat =3D
> customizes =3D3D
>> many of=3D3D20
>> the software that they include in their =3D3D3D> =
product. =3D
> =3D3D
>> They include=3D3D20
>> redhat branding and make other changes as they
=3D3D3D> see =
=3D3D
>> fit. I have=3D3D20
>> no idea whether they customize gaim but even if they =
=3D3D3D> =3D
> did =3D3D
>> Adam needs=3D3D20
>> to look to see if there is a copyright notice on redhat =3D
> =3D3D3D> =3D3D
>> linux and=3D3D20
>> not some independent release of gaim that has nothing to do =3D3D
>> =3D3D3D> with the=3D3D20
>> one for which redhat took responsibility because it was =3D
> =3D3D3D> =3D3D
>> included=3D3D20
>> with redhat's product. redhat does include a copyright notice =
=3D
> =3D3D
>> =3D3D3D>=3D3D20
>> in its product and it shouuld apply to everything in its=3D3D20
>> product.Blimey I know MS has a history of
putting it's =
=3D3D
>> copyright onto=3D3D20
>> other people'swork (such as doublespace
<> Stac) but this =
=3D
> is =3D3D
>> amazing.There is not an "independant
release of gaim", =3D
> merely =3D3D
>> a=3D3D20
>> release of gaim. Gaimis owned by the people who wrote it. =3D3D
>> So let's=3D3D20
>> see if I've got this right, if Sony of Dell bundle Windows =
with=3D3D20
>> theirproduct then they get to put their copyright onto=3D3D20
>> Windows?& if the MS-EU deal resolves
to including =3D3D
>> competing=3D3D20
>> products then MS will putit's copyright onto GAIM, Mozilla, =
Real =3D
> =3D3D
>> player=3D3D20
>> etc?That should make some lawyers very=3D3D20
>> rich.Adam
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>
>
> charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">
>
>
>
>
> I choose a real =
world =3D
> example that=3D20
> supports my point. You jump between multiple imaginary =
scenarios =3D
> and=3D20
> speculations trying to support your claims that despite redhat =
taking=3D20
> responsibility for the security flaws in its linux product, you =
=3D
> assert that=3D20
> they have none.
>
> Rich
>
> style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
=3D
> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> "Adam Flinton" < =3D
> =
href=3D3D"Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com=">mailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com=
> >=3D20
> wrote in message =3D
> =
href=3D3D"news:50932d.5836fb{at}harborwebs.com">news:50932d.5836fb{at}harborweb=
s.=3D
> com...>=3D20
> From: "Rich" <{at}>> This is a
multi-part message in =
MIME=3D20
> format.> =
------=3D3D_NextPart_000_0043_01C3FA5A.19F03880>=3D20
> Content-Type: text/plain;> =
charset=3D3D"iso-8859-1">=3D20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable> We are =
discussing =3D
> redhat=3D20
> which does brand software developed by =3D3D> others and =
claims =3D
> rights to=3D20
> this branding. If you want to back peddle
=3D3D> from =
your =3D
> earlier=3D20
> claims, try to keep to the subject.ROFLMAO ....you ask =
someone =3D
> to "try=3D20
> to keep to the subject"? You're as
usualtrying to divert =
=3D
> & make=3D20
> up subjects via changing thread titles to suit =3D
> yourposition.You=3D20
> chose the Red Hat Distribution as "linux" not anyone else.
You =
=3D
> then used=3D20
> 3'rd party applications (which run on multiple OS'es) as =3D
> exampleswhere=3D20
> there are vulnerabilites in "linux".You then
claimed that =
becuase =3D
> Red Hat=3D20
> bundles those applications, somehow RHgained the copyright to =
=3D
> those=3D20
> programs. You have then totally failed to explain why such a =
thing =3D
> is not=3D20
> applicable toMicrosoft OS'es.However
your evasion of =3D
> simple=3D20
> questions is so noticeable that you must havesome real problems =
=3D
> explaining=3D20
> if MS is going to try & seize the copyright ofany
competing =
=3D
> products=3D20
> the EU might require MS bundles along with =3D
> Windows.Adam>=3D20
> Rich> "Adam Flinton" < =3D
> =
href=3D3D"Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com=">mailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com=
> >=3D20
> wrote in message =3D3D> =3D
> =
href=3D3D"news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs.com">news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborweb=
s.=3D
> com...>>=3D20
> From: "Rich" <{at}>>>
This is a multi-part message in =
=3D
> MIME=3D20
> format.>> =3D
>
------=3D3D3D_NextPart_000_00D8_01C3F993.E9ED7D30>>=3D20
> Content-Type: text/plain;>> =3D
> charset=3D3D3D"iso-8859-1">>=3D20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable>> redhat =3D
> customizes many=3D20
> of the software that they include in their =3D3D> =3D
> =3D3D3D>>=3D20
> product. They include redhat branding and make other changes =
as=3D20
> =3D3D> they =3D3D3D>> see
fit. I have no idea =
=3D
> whether they=3D20
> customize gaim but even if =3D3D> they
=3D3D3D>> =
did Adam =3D
> needs to=3D20
> look to see if there is a copyright notice on =3D3D> redhat =
=3D
> =3D3D3D>>=3D20
> linux and not some independent release of gaim that has nothing to =
=3D
> =3D3D>=3D20
> do =3D3D3D>> with the one for which redhat took =
responsibility =3D
> because=3D20
> it was =3D3D3D>> included with redhat's
product. =
redhat =3D
> does=3D20
> include a copyright =3D3D> notice
=3D3D3D>> in its =
=3D
> product and it=3D20
> shouuld apply to everything in its product.> Blimey
I know MS =
=3D
> has a=3D20
> history of putting it's copyright onto other =3D3D> =3D
> people's> work=3D20
> (such as doublespace <> Stac) but this is
amazing.> =
There =3D
> is not=3D20
> an "independant release of gaim", merely a release of
=3D3D> =
=3D
> gaim.=3D20
> Gaim> is owned by the people who wrote
it.=3D3D20> So =
=3D
> let's see if=3D20
> I've got this right, if Sony of Dell bundle Windows =3D3D> =
with=3D20
> their> product then they get to put their copyright onto=3D20
> Windows?> & if the MS-EU deal resolves to
including =3D
> competing=3D20
> products then MS =3D3D> will put>
it's copyright onto =
=3D
> GAIM, Mozilla,=3D20
> Real player etc?> That should make some lawyers very =3D
> rich.>=3D20
> Adam>
------=3D3D_NextPart_000_0043_01C3FA5A.19F03880> =
=3D
> Content-Type:=3D20
> text/html;>
charset=3D3D"iso-8859-1"> =3D
> Content-Transfer-Encoding:=3D20
> quoted-printable> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC
"-//W3C//DTD HTML =
=3D
> 4.0=3D20
> Transitional//EN">>
<HTML><HEAD>> =3D
> <META=3D20
> http-equiv=3D3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D3D"text/html; =
=3D3D>=3D20
> charset=3D3D3Diso-8859-1">>
<META content=3D3D3D"MSHTML =
=3D
> 6.00.3790.118"=3D20
> name=3D3D3DGENERATOR>> =
<STYLE></STYLE>>=3D20
> </HEAD>> <BODY =
bgColor=3D3D3D#ffffff>>=3D20
> <DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2> =3D
> We are=3D20
> discussing redhat =3D3D> which
does=3D3D20> brand =
software =3D
> developed by=3D20
> others and claims rights to this =3D3D>
branding. =
=3D
> If=3D3D20>=3D20
> you want to back peddle from your earlier claims, try to keep =3D
> =3D3D>=3D20
> to the=3D3D20> =
subject.</FONT></DIV>> =3D
> <DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
>
size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>>
=3D
> <DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>>=3D20
> <DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
>
size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>>=3D20
> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D3D20>
style=3D3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; =3D
> PADDING-LEFT: 5px;=3D20
> MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D3D> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; =3D
> MARGIN-RIGHT:=3D20
> 0px">> <DIV>"Adam
Flinton" =
<<A=3D3D20> =3D
> =3D3D>=3D20
> href=3D3D3D" =3D
> =
href=3D3D'Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com=">mailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com=
=
'>mailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com</=
=3D
> =3D3D>>=3D20
> >=3D3D20> wrote in message
<A=3D3D20> =
=3D3D> =3D
> href=3D3D3D" =3D
> =
href=3D3D'news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs.com">news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborweb=
s'=3D
>> =
news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs.com">news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs.=3D=
> =3D3D>=3D20
>
com</A>...</DIV>>=3D3D20>
From: =
"Rich"=3D20
> <{at}><BR>> This is a
multi-part message =
in=3D20
> MIME=3D3D20> format.<BR>>=3D20
> =3D
> =
------=3D3D3D_NextPart_000_00D8_01C3F993.E9ED7D30<BR>>=3D3D2=
0> >=3D20
> Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>>=3D20
>
charset=3D3D3D"iso-8859-1"<BR>>=3D3D20>
=3D
> Content-Transfer-Encoding:=3D20
> quoted-printable<BR>> redhat customizes
=3D3D> =
many=3D20
> of=3D3D20> the software that they include in their =3D
> =3D3D3D<BR>>=3D20
> product. =3D3D> They
include=3D3D20> redhat =
=3D
> branding and make=3D20
> other changes as they =3D3D3D<BR>> see
=3D3D> =
=3D
> fit. I=3D20
> have=3D3D20> no idea whether they customize gaim
but even if =
they =3D
> =3D3D3D<BR>> did =3D3D> Adam =
needs=3D3D20> to =3D
> look to see if=3D20
> there is a copyright notice on redhat
=3D3D3D<BR>> =3D
> =3D3D> linux=3D20
> and=3D3D20> not some independent release of gaim that has =
nothing =3D
> to do=3D20
> =3D3D> =3D3D3D<BR>> with
the=3D3D20> one =
for =3D
> which redhat took=3D20
> responsibility because it was =3D3D3D<BR>> =
=3D3D>=3D20
> included=3D3D20> with redhat's
product. redhat does =
=3D
> include a=3D20
> copyright notice =3D3D> =
=3D3D3D<BR>>=3D3D20> in =3D
> its product and=3D20
> it shouuld apply to everything in its=3D3D20>=3D20
> product.<BR><BR>Blimey I know MS has a
history of =
putting =3D
> it's=3D20
> =3D3D> copyright onto=3D3D20> other =
people's<BR>work =3D
> (such as=3D20
> doublespace <> Stac) but this is
=3D3D>=3D20
> amazing.<BR><BR>There is not an
"independant release of =
=3D
> gaim",=3D20
> merely =3D3D> a=3D3D20> release of gaim. =
Gaim<BR>is =3D
> owned by the=3D20
> people who wrote it. =3D3D>
<BR><BR>So =3D
> let's=3D3D20> see if=3D20
> I've got this right, if Sony of Dell bundle Windows =
with=3D3D20>=3D20
> their<BR>product then they get to put their copyright =3D
> onto=3D3D20>=3D20
> Windows?<BR><BR>& if the
MS-EU deal resolves to =
=3D
> including=3D20
> =3D3D> competing=3D3D20> products
then MS will =3D
> put<BR>it's=3D20
> copyright onto GAIM, Mozilla, Real =3D3D> =
player=3D3D20>=3D20
> etc?<BR><BR>That should make some lawyers =3D
> very=3D3D20>=3D20
> =3D
> =
rich.<BR><BR>Adam</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>=
=3D
> ;
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Still
having trouble =
remembering the=20
topic being discussed. The best you can do is claim that you
could = pick an=20
example yet so far you have not and don't appear as if you will ever do=20
so. As I wrote several times, you are own your own arguing that =
the=20
security vulnerabilities in redhat's linux 9 product for which they took =
responsiblity are ones for which they should not. They disagree = with=20
you.
I'd be
willing to accept =
that your=20
employer sun disclaims responsibility for the software they ship for = which they=20
don't own the copyright but would still insist on your providing a = reference to=20
a sun statement to this affect instead of assuming that your employer = agrees=20
with your irresponsible position.
Rich
"Adam Flinton" <Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.commailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com
A>>=20
wrote in message news:f09341.592bd5{at}harborwebs.=
com...>=20
From: "Rich" <{at}>> This is a
multi-part message in MIME=20
format.>
------=3D_NextPart_000_00C6_01C3FAB4.98875890>=20
Content-Type: text/plain;>
charset=3D"iso-8859-1">=20
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable> I choose a real =
world=20
example that supports my point. Indeed. & I
could pick one =
which=20
destroys it. Such is the maleability
of"linux".> You =
jump=20
=3D> between multiple imaginary scenarios and speculations =
trying to=20
support =3D> your claims that despite redhat taking =
responsibility for=20
the security =3D> flaws in its linux product, you assert that =
they have=20
none.What, imaginary things such as MS breaking EU anti-trust =
law=20
& thus facingsanctions e.g.:http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/02/24/HNECmicrosoftsell_1.htm=
l">http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/02/24/HNECmicrosoftsell_1.html;=
"European=20
Commissioner for competition Mario Monti may demand that =
MicrosoftCorp.=20
sell two versions of its ubiquitous operating system, Windows, in=20
Europe:one with Media Player inside as it does at present, and =
another=20
with the musicand video playing software stripped out and sold =
separately,=20
people close tothe case said on
Tuesday.Monti may also =
demand that=20
Microsoft itself should propose "within a few monthsof a
ruling" =
what=20
Windows computer code it should reveal in order to make =
theoperating=20
system fully interoperable with rival software makers' programs=20
forservers, which drive networks of PCs, one of the people=20
said.These likely remedies will come attached to a negative =
ruling=20
that brandsMicrosoft an abusive monopolist, unless a settlement is =
reached=20
during the nextmonth to six weeks. A negative ruling is expected =
to carry=20
with it a fine of atleast $100 million.
"& from the =
same=20
article"Microsoft has argued that unbundling
Media Player from =
Windows=20
would preventthe operating system from working properly. It also =
fears the=20
precedent thatwould be set if it did agree to separate Media =
Player from=20
Windows."So media player is part of Windows as
without it the =
OS won't=20
work properly.&
then:"Future software products, =
such as an=20
Internet search engine which Microsoftplans to launch to compete =
with the=20
Google search engine, count on the bundlingbusiness model =
Microsoft has=20
employed with all its most successful softwareproducts including =
Internet=20
Explorer, Word and Outlook Express. "Interesting
that they =
lump word=20
in with IE & OE...Oh &
"The draft decision may =
order=20
Microsoft to decide what must be revealed aboutWindows in order to =
ensure=20
interoperability. "If the company fails to complywith the order it =
would=20
open itself up to legal action in any national court inthe =
European=20
Union," one person close to the talks said, adding: "A =
negativeruling=20
would set a dangerous legal precedent for
Microsoft.""Not just =
any=20
national court....every national court..Crikey all these =
imaginery EU=20
commisioners & imaginery MS monopolistic abuse
&imaginery =
MS=20
bundling of imaginery "products" into their imaginery OS in =
orderto quash=20
imaginery competition...Will the MS Anti-Virus addition to XP =
be=20
crippled or can MS expect the EU toadd AV to the list of competing =
products?Adam>
Rich> "Adam =
Flinton"=20
<Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.commailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com
A>>=20
wrote in message =3D> news:50932d.5836fb{at}harborwebs.=
com...>>=20
From: "Rich" <{at}>>> This
is a multi-part message in =
MIME=20
format.>> =
------=3D3D_NextPart_000_0043_01C3FA5A.19F03880>>=20
Content-Type: text/plain;>> =
charset=3D3D"iso-8859-1">>=20
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable>> We are =
discussing=20
redhat which does brand software developed by
=3D3D>> others =
and=20
claims rights to this branding. If you want to back
=3D> =
peddle=20
=3D3D>> from your earlier claims, try to keep to the =
subject.>=20
ROFLMAO ....you ask someone to "try to keep to the subject"? =
You're=20
=3D> as usual> trying to divert
& make up subjects =
via=20
changing thread titles to suit =3D> your> =
position.> You=20
chose the Red Hat Distribution as "linux" not anyone =
else.=3D20> You then=20
used 3'rd party applications (which run on multiple OS'es) as =
=3D>=20
examples> where there are vulnerabilites in
"linux".> =
You then=20
claimed that becuase Red Hat bundles those applications, =3D> =
somehow=20
RH> gained the copyright to those
programs.=3D20> You =
have then=20
totally failed to explain why such a thing is not =3D> =
applicable=20
to> Microsoft OS'es.> However your
evasion of simple =
questions=20
is so noticeable that you =3D> must
have> some real =
problems=20
explaining if MS is going to try & seize the
=3D> copyright =
of> any competing products the EU might require MS bundles =
along with=20
=3D> Windows.>
Adam>> Rich>> "Adam =
Flinton"=20
<Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.commailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com
A>>=20
wrote in message =3D3D>> news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs.=
com...>>>=20
From: "Rich"
<{at}>>>> This is a multi-part
message in =
MIME=20
format.>>>=20
------=3D3D3D_NextPart_000_00D8_01C3F993.E9ED7D30>>>
=
Content-Type:=20
text/plain;>>>
charset=3D3D3D"iso-8859-1">>> =
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable>>> redhat =
customizes=20
many of the software that they include in their =3D> =
=3D3D>>=20
=3D3D3D>>> product. They include
redhat branding =
and make=20
other changes as =3D> =3D3D>> they =
=3D3D3D>>> see=20
fit. I have no idea whether they customize gaim but even if =
=3D>=20
=3D3D>> they
=3D3D3D>>> did Adam needs to look =
to see if=20
there is a copyright notice on =3D3D>> redhat =
=3D3D3D>>>=20
linux and not some independent release of gaim that has nothing to =
=3D>=20
=3D3D>> do
=3D3D3D>>> with the one for which =
redhat took=20
responsibility because it was =3D>
=3D3D3D>>> =
included with=20
redhat's product. redhat does include a copyright
=3D>=20
=3D3D>> notice
=3D3D3D>>> in its product and it =
shouuld=20
apply to everything in its product.>> Blimey I
know MS has a =
history=20
of putting it's copyright onto other =3D>
=3D3D>>=20
people's>> work (such as doublespace
<> Stac) but this =
is=20
amazing.>> There is not an "independant
release of gaim", =
merely a=20
release of =3D> =3D3D>> gaim.
Gaim>> is =
owned by the=20
people who wrote it.=3D3D20>> So let's see if
I've got this =
right, if=20
Sony of Dell bundle Windows =3D>
=3D3D>> with =
their>>=20
product then they get to put their copyright onto
Windows?>> =
&=20
if the MS-EU deal resolves to including competing products then MS =
=3D>=20
=3D3D>> will put>> it's
copyright onto GAIM, =
Mozilla, Real=20
player etc?>> That should make some lawyers very =
rich.>>=20
Adam>> =
------=3D3D_NextPart_000_0043_01C3FA5A.19F03880>>=20
Content-Type: text/html;>> =
charset=3D3D"iso-8859-1">>=20
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable>>
<!DOCTYPE =
HTML=20
PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0
Transitional//EN">>>=20
<HTML><HEAD>>> <META =
http-equiv=3D3D3DContent-Type=20
content=3D3D3D"text/html; =3D3D>>=20
charset=3D3D3Diso-8859-1">>> <META =
content=3D3D3D"MSHTML=20
6.00.3790.118" name=3D3D3DGENERATOR>>>=20
<STYLE></STYLE>>>
</HEAD>>> =
<BODY=20
bgColor=3D3D3D#ffffff>>>
<DIV><FONT =
face=3D3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D3D2> We are discussing
=3D> =
redhat=20
=3D3D>> which
does=3D3D20>> brand software =
developed by others=20
and claims rights to this =3D3D>>
branding. =20
If=3D3D20>> you want to back peddle from your earlier =
claims, try to=20
keep =3D3D>>
to the=3D3D20>>=20
subject.</FONT></DIV>>>
<DIV><FONT=20
face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>>>=20
<DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>>>
=
<DIV><FONT=20
face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>>>=20
<BLOCKQUOTE=3D3D20>>
style=3D3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; =
PADDING-LEFT:=20
5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D>
=3D3D>> BORDER-LEFT: =
#000000 2px=20
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">>>
<DIV>"Adam Flinton"=20
<<A=3D3D20>>
=3D3D>> =3D> =
href=3D3D3D"Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com'>=">mailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com'>=
mailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com=3D=
>=20
</=3D3D>>>
>=3D3D20>> wrote in =
message=20
<A=3D3D20>>
=3D3D>> =3D>
href=3D3D3D"news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborweb'>=
news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs.com">news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborweb=3D=
>=20
s.=3D3D>> =
com</A>...</DIV>>=3D3D20>>
From:=20
"Rich" <{at}><BR>>
This is a multi-part =
message in=20
=3D> MIME=3D3D20>>
format.<BR>> =
=3D>=20
=
------=3D3D3D_NextPart_000_00D8_01C3F993.E9ED7D30<BR>>=3D3D2=
0>>=20
Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>> =3D>=20
charset=3D3D3D"iso-8859-1"<BR>>=3D3D20>>=20
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR>> redhat =
=3D>=20
customizes =3D3D>> many
of=3D3D20>> the software =
that they=20
include in their =3D3D3D<BR>> product. =
=3D>=20
=3D3D>> They
include=3D3D20>> redhat branding and =
make other=20
changes as they =3D3D3D<BR>> see
=3D3D>> =
fit. I=20
have=3D3D20>> no idea whether they customize gaim
but even =
if they=20
=3D3D3D<BR>> =3D> did
=3D3D>> Adam=20
needs=3D3D20>> to look to see if there is a
copyright notice =
on redhat=20
=3D> =3D3D3D<BR>>
=3D3D>> linux =
and=3D3D20>>=20
not some independent release of gaim that has nothing to do =
=3D3D>>=20
=3D3D3D<BR>> with
the=3D3D20>> one for which =
redhat took=20
responsibility because it was =3D>
=3D3D3D<BR>>=20
=3D3D>> included=3D3D20>>
with redhat's =
product. =20
redhat does include a copyright notice =3D>
=3D3D>>=20
=3D3D3D<BR>>=3D3D20>> in
its product and it =
shouuld apply=20
to everything in its=3D3D20>> =
product.<BR><BR>Blimey I=20
know MS has a history of putting it's =3D3D>> copyright=20
onto=3D3D20>> other
people's<BR>work (such as =
doublespace=20
<> Stac) but this =3D> is
=3D3D>>=20
amazing.<BR><BR>There is not an
"independant release of =
gaim",=20
=3D> merely =3D3D>>
a=3D3D20>> release of =
gaim.=20
Gaim<BR>is owned by the people who wrote it.
=3D3D>>=20
<BR><BR>So
let's=3D3D20>> see if I've got this =
right, if=20
Sony of Dell bundle Windows with=3D3D20>> =
their<BR>product then=20
they get to put their copyright onto=3D3D20>>=20
Windows?<BR><BR>& if the MS-EU
deal resolves to =
including=20
=3D3D>>
competing=3D3D20>> products then MS will=20
put<BR>it's copyright onto GAIM, Mozilla, Real
=3D> =
=3D3D>>=20
player=3D3D20>>
etc?<BR><BR>That should make =
some lawyers=20
very=3D3D20>>=20
=
rich.<BR><BR>Adam</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>=
;>=20
------=3D_NextPart_000_00C6_01C3FAB4.98875890> Content-Type:=20
text/html;> charset=3D"iso-8859-1"> =
Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20
quoted-printable> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC
"-//W3C//DTD HTML =
4.0=20
Transitional//EN">>
<HTML><HEAD>> =
<META=20
http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D>=20
charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">> <META
content=3D3D"MSHTML =
6.00.3790.118"=20
name=3D3DGENERATOR>>
<STYLE></STYLE>>=20
</HEAD>> <BODY
bgColor=3D3D#ffffff>>=20
<DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial
size=3D3D2> =
I choose a=20
real world =3D> example that=3D20> supports my =
point. You=20
jump between multiple imaginary scenarios =3D>
and=3D20> =
speculations trying to support your claims that despite redhat=20
taking=3D20> responsibility for the security flaws in its linux =
product, you =3D> assert
that=3D20> they have=20
none.</FONT></DIV>>
<DIV><FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>>
=
<DIV><FONT=20
face=3D3DArial
size=3D3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>>=20
<DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>>=20
<BLOCKQUOTE=3D20> style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; =
PADDING-LEFT: 5px;=20
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; =
MARGIN-RIGHT:=20
0px">> <DIV>"Adam
Flinton" <<A=3D20> =
=3D>=20
href=3D3D"Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.commailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com
'>mailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com</=
=3D>>=20
>=3D20> wrote in message
<A=3D20> =3D> =
href=3D3D"news:50932d.5836fb{at}harborwebs'=
>news:50932d.5836fb{at}harborwebs.com">news:50932d.5836fb{at}harborwebs.=
=3D>=20
com</A>...</DIV>>=3D20>
From: "Rich"=20
<{at}><BR>> This is a
multi-part message in=20
MIME=3D20> format.<BR>>=20
=
------=3D3D_NextPart_000_0043_01C3FA5A.19F03880<BR>>=3D20>=20
Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>>=20
charset=3D3D"iso-8859-1"<BR>>=3D20>
=
Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20
quoted-printable<BR>> We are discussing
=3D>=20
redhat=3D20> which does brand software developed by =
=3D3D<BR>>=20
others and claims =3D> rights to=3D20> this =
branding. If=20
you want to back peddle =3D3D<BR>> from your
=3D>=20
earlier=3D20> claims, try to keep to the=20
subject.<BR><BR>ROFLMAO ....you ask someone
=3D> to =
"try=3D20> to keep to the
subject"? You're as=20
usual<BR>trying to divert =3D> & =
make=3D20> up=20
subjects via changing thread titles to suit =3D>=20
your<BR>position.<BR><BR>You=3D20>
chose the =
Red Hat=20
Distribution as "linux" not anyone else. <BR>You
=3D> =
then=20
used=3D20> 3'rd party applications (which run on multiple =
OS'es) as=20
=3D>
examples<BR>where=3D20> there are =
vulnerabilites in=20
"linux".<BR>You then claimed that becuase
=3D> Red =
Hat=3D20>=20
bundles those applications, somehow RH<BR>gained the copyright =
to=20
=3D> those=3D20> programs.
<BR>You have then =
totally failed to=20
explain why such a thing =3D> is
not=3D20> applicable=20
to<BR>Microsoft
OS'es.<BR><BR>However your evasion =
of=20
=3D> simple=3D20> questions is so
noticeable that you =
must=20
have<BR>some real problems =3D>
explaining=3D20> =
if MS is=20
going to try & seize the copyright of<BR>any competing =
=3D>=20
products=3D20> the EU might require MS bundles along with =
=3D>=20
=
Windows.<BR><BR>Adam<BR><BR>>=3D20>=
=20
Rich<BR>> "Adam Flinton"
<<A=3D20> =
=3D>=20
href=3D3D"Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.commailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com
'>mailto:Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com">Adam.Flinton{at}harborwebs.com</=
=3D>>=20
>=3D20> wrote in message
=3D3D<BR>> =
<A=3D20>=20
=3D> href=3D3D"news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs'=
>news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs.com">news:e092fb.5734cb{at}harborwebs.=
=3D>=20
com</A>...<BR>>>=3D20>
From: "Rich"=20
<{at}><BR>>> This
is a multi-part =
message in=20
=3D> MIME=3D20>
format.<BR>>> =
=3D>=20
=
------=3D3D3D_NextPart_000_00D8_01C3F993.E9ED7D30<BR>>&g=
t;=3D20>=20
Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>>>
=3D>=20
charset=3D3D3D"iso-8859-1"<BR>>>=3D20>=20
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable<BR>>> =
redhat=20
=3D> customizes many=3D20> of the
software that they =
include in=20
their =3D3D<BR>> =3D>=20
=3D3D3D<BR>>>=3D20>
product. They =
include=20
redhat branding and make other changes as=3D20> =
=3D3D<BR>>=20
they =3D3D3D<BR>>> see
fit. I have no =
idea=20
=3D> whether they=3D20> customize gaim
but even if=20
=3D3D<BR>> they
=3D3D3D<BR>>> did =
Adam =3D>=20
needs to=3D20> look to see if there is a copyright notice on=20
=3D3D<BR>> redhat =3D>=20
=3D3D3D<BR>>>=3D20>
linux and not some =
independent=20
release of gaim that has nothing to =3D> =
=3D3D<BR>>=3D20>=20
do =3D3D3D<BR>>> with the one for
which redhat =
took=20
responsibility =3D> because=3D20> it was=20
=3D3D3D<BR>>> included with redhat's =
product. =20
redhat =3D> does=3D20> include a copyright =
=3D3D<BR>>=20
notice =3D3D3D<BR>>> in its
=3D> product =
and=20
it=3D20> shouuld apply to everything in its =
product.<BR>>=20
Blimey I know MS =3D> has a=3D20>
history of putting =
it's copyright=20
onto other =3D3D<BR>> =3D> =
people's<BR>>=20
work=3D20> (such as doublespace <>
Stac) but this =
is=20
amazing.<BR>> There =3D> is
not=3D20> an =
"independant=20
release of gaim", merely a release of =3D3D<BR>> =
=3D>=20
gaim.=3D20> Gaim<BR>> is owned
by the people who =
wrote=20
it.=3D3D20<BR>> So =3D> let's
see if=3D20> =
I've got this=20
right, if Sony of Dell bundle Windows =3D3D<BR>> =
with=3D20>=20
their<BR>> product then they get to put their copyright=20
onto=3D20> Windows?<BR>>
& if the MS-EU =
deal=20
resolves to including =3D>
competing=3D20> products then =
MS=20
=3D3D<BR>> will
put<BR>> it's copyright onto =
=3D>=20
GAIM, Mozilla,=3D20> Real player
etc?<BR>> That =
should make=20
some lawyers very =3D>
rich.<BR>>=3D20>=20
Adam<BR>>=20
------=3D3D_NextPart_000_0043_01C3FA5A.19F03880<BR>> =
=3D>=20
Content-Type:=3D20> text/html;<BR>>=20
charset=3D3D"iso-8859-1"<BR>>
=3D>=20
Content-Transfer-Encoding:=3D20> =
quoted-printable<BR>>=20
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML =3D> =
4.0=3D20>=20
Transitional//EN"><BR>>=20
<HTML><HEAD><BR>>
=3D> =
<META=3D20> http-equiv=3D3D3DContent-Type =
content=3D3D3D"text/html;=20
=3D3D<BR>>=3D20>=20
charset=3D3D3Diso-8859-1"><BR>>
<META=20
content=3D3D3D"MSHTML =3D>
6.00.3790.118"=3D20>=20
name=3D3D3DGENERATOR><BR>>=20
=
<STYLE></STYLE><BR>>=3D20>=
;=20
</HEAD><BR>> <BODY=20
bgColor=3D3D3D#ffffff><BR>>=3D20>=20
<DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;
=3D> We =
are=3D20>=20
discussing redhat =3D3D<BR>> which =
does=3D3D20<BR>>=20
brand software =3D> developed by=3D20>
others and claims =
rights to=20
this =3D3D<BR>> branding.&nbsp;
=3D>=20
If=3D3D20<BR>>=3D20> you want
to back peddle from =
your earlier=20
claims, try to keep =3D>
=3D3D<BR>>=3D20>=20
to&nbsp;the=3D3D20<BR>>=20
subject.</FONT></DIV><BR>>
=
=3D>=20
<DIV><FONT
face=3D3D3DArial=3D20>=20
=
size=3D3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV&g=
t;<BR>>=20
=3D>
<DIV><FONT=3D20> =
face=3D3D3DArial=20
=
size=3D3D3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV><BR&g=
t;>=3D20>=20
<DIV><FONT
face=3D3D3DArial=3D20>=20
=
size=3D3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV&g=
t;<BR>>=3D20>=20
<BLOCKQUOTE=3D3D20<BR>> =
style=3D3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px;=20
=3D> PADDING-LEFT: 5px;=3D20>
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;=20
=3D3D<BR>> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;
=3D>=20
MARGIN-RIGHT:=3D20>
0px"><BR>>=20
<DIV>"Adam Flinton" =
&lt;<A=3D3D20<BR>>=20
=3D> =3D3D<BR>>=3D20> =
href=3D3D3D"<A=3D20>=20
=3D>=20
=
href=3D3D'
com</=3D>=20
=
'>
om</=3D>=20
</A>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20>=20
&gt;=3D3D20<BR>> wrote in message=20
<A=3D3D20<BR>>
=3D3D<BR>> =3D> =
href=3D3D3D"<A=3D20> =3D>=20
=
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