In article , basicallyblues says...
>
>
>
>>And you call _me_ the 'antagonist'?
>
>Your very first response to a post of mine was antogonistic. You said
>what I wrote was "evil".

What you wrote IS evil.

> That is not a peaceful way to begin a
>discussion.

But the beginning was NOT done by me. It was done by you, who already made a
"not peaceful" beginning by posting such evil.

> IF you start with the condescending insults again in this
>thread I will stop responding as I did in our last thread.
>
>>No, that is not what it says. The word is "horama", which
does _not_
>mean
>>exclusively 'vision'.
>
>I didn't say the word meant exclusively a supernatural vision. Show me
>where I did.

Then why are you spending all the rest of this post pretending that is _is_
exclusively so used?

> If you check the usage of "horama" you will clearly see
>the word is used as a supernatural vision.

Not always. See the LSJ citation I already gave you. More important, in all the
examples you give, the 'supernatural' visions were of truly existing things. So
when Peter saw Elijah and Moses, they were seeing who was really there.

[snip]

>>So even if I _did_ concede the word 'vision' here, that _still_ would
>not >mean that Peter did not see Moses and Elijah for real.
>
>You would be a stubborn mule if you did not concede the obvious. Peter
>"saw" a vision of Moses and Elijah. Both were dead- asleep in death.

No. THey were really there, and they were really alive.

>"Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven, the Son of man" (John 3:13)
>
>See also Acts 2:34 where it says not even King David went to heaven.

That is quite irrelevant. No one claimed David went to heaven before the
"harrowing of hell".

>John the Baptist didn't go to heaven either (Matt. 11:12)

That does NOT follow from the verse you cite. Did you even look at it? all it
says is:

   From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom
   of heaven has suffered violence, and men of
   violence take it by force.  (Mat 11:12 RSVA)

>>Elijah was taken up, remember? As for Moses, although he was never
>>described as 'taken up', the fact that no one knew where his body was
>>buried must have
>>symbolized something.
>
>God obviously did something with Moses' body because of what's written
>at Jude 9

But _what_ he did with it is far from clear.

>Elijah did NOT die and ascend to heaven when he was "taken up". Elijah
>does not die at this time, nor does he go into the invisible spirit
>realm, but he is transferred to another prophetic assignment. (John
>3:13) This is shown by the fact that Elisha does not hold any period of
>mourning for his master. A number of years after his ascension in the
>windstorm Elijah is still alive and active as a prophet, this time to
>the king of Judah. Because of the wicked course taken by King Jehoram
>of Judah, Elijah writes him a letter expressing Jehovah's
>condemnation, which is fulfilled shortly thereafter.-2Ch 21:12-15;

I have already refuted all these ridiculous claims in another post in this same
thread.

>
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-- 
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Subudcat se sibi ut haereat Deo
quidquid boni habet, tribuat illi a quo factus est.
(St. Augustine, Ser. 96)

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