"basicallyblues"  writes:


>
>>Ignatius of Antioch (c 107)
>
>First of all- as regards the trinity is is not "proof" one way or the
>other what any follower thought following the Apostle John's death but
>on the subject specifically about the trinity belief before 325....

Hang on there.   You wrote, regarding the Trinity:

>It most certainly is pagan. It was unknown to Christians living before
>the 3rd Century.

And yet, you admit:

>If we accept the shorter version of his writings as genuine, it does
>eliminate some phrases (in the longer version) that show Christ as
>subordinate to God, but what is left in the shorter version still does
>not show a Trinity. And regardless of which of his writings are
>genuine, they show at best that Ignatius believed in a duality of God
>and his Son. This was certainly not a duality of equals, for the Son is
>always presented as lesser than God and subordinate to him. Thus,
>regardless of how one views the Ignatian writings, a Trinity doctrine
>is not to be found in them.

The very fact that you are debating Ignatius view of Christ as God
shows that your claim of a 3rd century *origin* for Trinitarian
teachings is false.

And that's the point I was addressing.  Your claim that it is a pagan
belief invented in the 3rd century is simply flat out wrong.  As I
also posted:

   Athenagoras (c 177) defends the Trinity as an essential part of
   the faith.   He mentions, BY NAME, Father, Son and Holy Spirit
   in "A Plea for Christians" (Chapter X).  He confirms the very
   nature of the Son as being eternal.

   Theopholis, who was Bishop of Antioch (AD168 to AD181) uses
   the actual word "Trinity" in "To Autolycus" (Book II, Chapt.
   15). He says that the three days in the tomb are a type of the.
   Trinity..

   Aristedes in his "Apolgy" (c AD125) mentions again, Father,
   Son and Holy Spirit.  He states that Jesus is the "Son of God"
   who came down from heaven *unbegotten* and called all men
   to "Himself away from false gods."  (Ch XV in Greek, Ch II in.
   Syriac).  While there is no clear statement "Jesus is God"
   the inferences are fairly clear.

To be clear - and restate my point - you claimed a 3rd century
origin for the Trinity, and claimed that it is pagan.  There is
ample evidence of 2nd century teachings about the Trinity to show
your statement to be categorically false.

 -Stephen
--
  Space Age Cybernomad                                   Stephen Adams
             malchus842SP{at}AMgmail.com (remove SPAM to reply)

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