From Newsgroup: alt.tv.star-trek.tos
From Address: graemecree{at}aol.com
Subject: Re: The alt.tv.star-trek.tos FAQ

>>
There is no rational, or logical, reason for excluding the animated series
from canon and several reasons to include it. Sorry to have to bring an
obscure concept like logic into a Star Trek group. 
>>
Rational or not, the reason it's excluded seems to be because Roddenberry
himself requested it.  As you say, a FAQ is a place for facts, so we have
to report that fact whether we approve of it or not.  FWIW, no actual rule
of logic is violated by excluding it, but it is arbitrary and senseless. 
In my opinion and yours, but didn't you also say that opinions should have
no part in this?
>All other Star Trek shows are pale imitations of this, the 
>original and the most entertaining. 
 
>>FAQ is a place for facts not biased opinions. 
Again FWIW, I didn't write that bit.  That's a holdover from Conmoore's
FAQ, which has never been deleted.  I don't see anything wrong with it,
though.  It seems quite reasonable that a TOS group would consider TOS to
be the best Trek Series.  FAQS are for Frequently Asked Questions, some of
which may be opinion based.  The reason we're here posting about Star Trek
instead of Baywatch is because of our biased opinion that Trek is a
superior show.
>>Also portrayed by Sean Kenney in "The Menagerie."
It's debatable whether Kenny "played" Pike or just sat there
while people called him Pike.  But still, point taken.  I'll add that fact
into the next version.
>>You mean "voiced by." If you think the animated series is
not canon, then 
why list the characters here? 
>>
Because Paramount's canon isn't necessarily ours.  This group's interests
have never been limited to strict canon.  Novels, games, Viewmaster slides,
the first 6 movies, you name it.  If it's got Kirk and Spock in it,
somebody here is interested in it.  TAS has always been particularly
popular, canon or not.
To be more precise, I do mean "voiced by".  But it would be
awkward to say (in every situation) that "Captain Kirk was either
played by or voiced by William Shatner).  It's easier to just use the term
"played by" to cover all situations.  "Voiced by" is
more precise, but "played by" is also accurate.
>>When was the pilot ever 90 minutes long? 
The unedited Cage is about 75 minutes long?  That would have fit in a 90
minute time slot in the 1960's days when they had about 5 minutes of
commercials every half hour.  In these days, it wouldn't.
>>I've never heard of United Starship but I did hear of United Space Ship 
when Kirk mentions it in "Space Seed."
>>
Court Martial:
"Ship nomenclature-- specify."
"United Starship Republic, number 1371."
Squire of Gothos:  "I'm Captain James Kirk of the United Starship
Enterprise."
But you're right about Space Seed.  Also in The Cage, Pike calls it
"the United Spaceship Enterprise".  So it's not consistent, and
that fact should be noted.  Good call.
"No. And you ignore the explanation given in Enterprise because you 
obviously hate that series."
Obviously.  What is the explanation from Enterprise, BTW?  I wasn't one of
the two or three people who followed it to the end.
>>It was explicitly stated on an episode of an NBC series called Star
Trek starring William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy that Capt. April was the
first captain of the Enterprise.
>>
I didn't create or approve of Paramount's definition of canon, I simply
report it.  Believe it or not, they didn't ask my opinion.  And under
Paramount's definition of canon, Robert T. April has no standing.  So the
explanation in the FAQ is correct.
You seem to be unclear on the definition of canon.  You say things like
"if you don't think it's canon".  It doesn't matter what I think,
it isn't.  The term "canon" means "That which Paramount
theoretically feels obligated to be consistent with in future
scripts".  I say "theoretically", since they often bungle or
deliberately ignore it (Enterprise, which you defended, did it frequently).
 And things have changed since the FAQ was written.  Technically NONE of
TOS is canon any more because the 2009 movie retconned the entire series
out of existence.
>>Anyone who understands logic knows this.
You throw the word "logic" around very informally.  I can't blame
you there, Spock himself was always doing the same.  But as a matter of
fact, knowing what dialogue was spoken on a television series has nothing
to do with logic, it's a matter of empiricism or direct observation. 
People who have studied logic their whole lives are unable to use it to
divine television dialogue.
>>The Cage was integrated into the The Menagerie because production was 
getting so far behind that they needed a new episode that was already 
filmed in order to meet the NBC airdates
>>
That fact is mentioned in the text you're replying to ("enabling the
show to save a valuable week of production time")
>>So Roddenberry saying the animated series is not canon shouldn't be taken 
seriously either. 
>>
The existence of Paramount is not canon, yet in the real world, they set
what canon is.  Reportedly they excluded TAS at Roddenberry's request, but
you suggest that maybe they did it because they didn't produce it.  We
don't know why they excluded it, only that they did.  If you're still
unclear on the definition of canon, Wiki has a good article at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_canon
>>Which is where Gene Roddenberry got the name not who Kirk was named after. 
I hardly think Kirk was named after a character in a 1960s TV show. 
>>
We're confusing the real world with the fictional one.  In the fictional
world, Kirk is probably named Tiberius (but who knows, he might be named
after a public figure of the future with the same name).  In the real
world, Kirk is named after William T. Rice.
>>You can't pick and choose.  If details from one broadcast episode of the 
>>animated series are canon, then all the episodes are. 
Obviously Paramount feels they can pick and choose.  You can write them a
letter and tell them they can't, but you probably won't get more than an
autographed photo for your trouble.  I doubt they'll change canon for you. 
They barely pay attention to their own definition any more.  I wouldn't
worry about it though.  I doubt anything from Mosaic and Pathways will make
it into a future script.  Someone here once opined that they only made
those books canon to throw a bone to the author.  As for Yesteryear, nobody
is even sure what biographical details about Spock are canon.  Is it canon
that he lived in a city called Shi Khar?  Or that his selat was named
I'Chiya?  Or that his mother's maiden name was Grayson?  Or that Vulcan has
a month called Tasmeen?  Paramount has never said which details from that
episode are canon and which aren't.
In one of the DS9 scripts, they mentioned a Klingon ship named the Klothos,
as a kind of tribute to TAS.  By doing that, it means that it's now canon
that a Klingon ship called the Klothos exists.  But that doesn't make it
canon that that ship or any other ever got trapped in the Bermuda... er,
DELTA Triangle with Captain Kirk.  Canon is often tricky and confusing, and
even when you understand it perfectly, Paramount his liable to thumb their
nose at it at any time.  That's one of the reasons why people here don't
limit their discussions strictly to canon facts.
>>
Premiere is generally the spelling used when the meaning is chronologically 
"the first." The problem was that the first episode did not air in Los 
Angeles and apparently Los Angeles airdates were sometimes used for the 
source of airdates for the whole country. 
>>
Maybe that's where the confusion came from.  I can say with certainty that
Farthest Star aired before Yesteryear in at least some parts of the
country.  Not sure about LA, but if it didn't air there, that would cause
the confusion.
I'm not sure about 22012.  Maybe it refers to an episode that was
comissioned but never produced?
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