From Newsgroup: alt.tv.star-trek.tos
From Address: graemecree{at}aol.com
Subject: Re: The alt.tv.star-trek.tos FAQ

On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 5:49:33 AM UTC-6, Wiseguy wrote:
>>Then years later [Roddenberry] changes his mind?  No, doesn't work for me. 
Nor me.  But Paramount defines what canon is, not us.  We don't have to
salute it, just take note of it.
>>Well, it's pretty safe to compare Star Trek to Baywatch.
So opinions are okay then, as long as they're commonly enough held?
>>Oh, come on.  You're picking nits.
I said that I've put Kenney in the FAQ, I'm not sure what more you want. 
This is no more a nit than arguing Played By vs. Voiced By.
 
>>Yes, when you're discussing TOS characters but Arex and M'Ress were only 
animated characters therefore only "voiced by." 
>>
As I say, I consider voicing to be a form of playing.  If someone tells me
that Mel Blanc "played" Bugs Bunny, I'm not going to quibble with
them too much, because as you said yourself, picking nits is wrong.
On the other hand, it does seem important to be clear when more than one
person is involved in a character.  With a character like Darth vader or
the Robot from Lost in Space, it is important to be clear which person
voiced him and which played him.  Sometimes the distinction is fuzzy,
though.  Like Andy Serkis didn't merely voice Gollum.  With the state of
CGI technology today, he actually did act out the motions, before CGI was
layered on to completely change his appearance.  That's not the case with
TAS, of course.
>>You didn't say with commercials.  Usually one speaks of filling a 
certain time slot or so long with commercials as to avoid confusion.
>>
Well, I went back and checked the DVD, and The Cage is in fact only 63:22. 
Enough for a 90 minute time slot now, but not then.  I think Making of Star
Trek had said it was 75 minutes, but that's obviously not the case.  So,
I've put 64 minutes into the FAQ and now there should be no confusion about
whether I mean with or without commercials.
>>As I said, I don't remember exactly but at the time [the Klingon
Ridge story] all made 
sense to me. 
>>
It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  In the Klingon's initial outing
(Errand of Mercy), Kor has this speech about how much humans and Klingons
are alike as a species.  It loses its meaning if they're only temporarily
alike because of some failed genetic experiment, and Kor is actually deeply
ashamed of what he seems to be fine with in the episode.  Enterprise's
explanation sounds like a minor retcon to say the least.  Still, it is
canon (or at least it was before Trek 11), so I guess the explanation
should be mentioned in the FAQ for completeness sake.  On the other hand,
was it ever really canon?  Doesn't Enterprise turn out to be a holonovel
that Troi and Riker are watching in the end (and maybe only loosely based
on the "real" Archer)?  I don't know, because I don't know the
other shows nearly as well as TOS (usually for the same reason that I don't
know much about Baywatch either).
>>Sorry, I assumed that this was your opinion.  You seem to go back and 
forth between "I think..." and "Paramount says..."
which makes it easy 
for you to say anthing and then back it up.
>>
Well, just to be clear, what I think never makes something canon.  I think
TOS is the best Trek series, but I doubt that's Paramount's official
opinion.  (I think Star Trek Into Darkness sucked on toast and I KNOW
that's not Paramount's position).
TAS' stock has appreciated over time.  When it first came out, it was
fairly unpopular.  People wanted a new live action Trek series, and instead
they were giving us this cartoon.  A lot of live action shows were remade
into cartoons at that time, like My Favorite Martian, Gilligan's Planet, I
Dream of Jeannie, and Partridge Family 2200 A.D., and a lot of them were
pretty cringeworthy.  Trek was better than most, but even it had these
embarassingly cartoony episodes, like "Kirk and Spock become water
breathers", or "Guy in Toga Clones a Giant Spock".  When
Trek 1 was announced, Trek Magazine had a poll about whether Arex and
M'Ress should be in the movie, and the reaction was heavily negative.  At
the time, people just wanted to forget about TAS and make a real series.
But over the years, opinion seems to have shifted.  Phase II fell through,
and the TOS movie series is over and done with.  People are starting to
realize that wow, there's an actual forgotten Star Trek series out there
starring Shatner, Nimoy and Kelly.  Okay, it's only a cartoon, but it's
something, and it's all we're ever going to get.  And some of the shows are
pretty decent.  So, opinion of TAS is much more favorable than it used to
be.  In some ways, it's better than the Third Season.
>>Even the mighty Paramount cannot erase history.
They can't erase it, but they don't have to refer to it ever again.  Trek
has never been all that great about referencing previous episodes.
>>
True, but you started off with (and edited it out here) with the reason 
being that The Cage was incorporated into The Menagerie because it was 
so costly. 
>>
All right, maybe I can rewrite that bit to make the necessity more clear.
  
I'm not confusing anything. I was responding to what you wrote which you 
always edit out leaving only my response. Let me remind you: 
>"WHAT DOES THE "T" IN JAMES T. KIRK STAND FOR? 
>Where does it come from? Some might think it comes from the Roman 
>Emperor who ruled from 14 AD - 37 AD. Yes, but only indirectly. Really, 
>the name comes from William Tiberius Rice, the lead character in Gene 
>Roddenberry's earlier series, The Lieutenant." 
>>The question dealt with the fictional Star Trek Universe.
That's right, the original question was what does the T stand for? (Answer:
 Tiberius, in both the real and fictional worlds).  The second (implied)
question was where does that name come from?  In the fictional world, we
don't know.  Presumably the Roman Emperor, but possibly a later historical
figure.  (For example, if you met a Martin Luther Smith, he would probably
be named after Martin Luther, but possibly after Martin Luther King).  But
in the real world, we do know where the name comes from.
When I say that the name comes from The Lieutenant, I am saying that that's
why Roddenberry gave him the name, and not that Kirk's parents watched 400
year old TV programs.  I thought that was clear enough, but maybe not.
>>Which shows that they, not I, don't understand canon. Which makes their 
dismissal of TAS ridiculous and arbitrary. 
>>
Your opinion is not unique.  But at least we now agree that opinions have a
place in the FAQ.
>>George Takei was running for some type of political office in L.A. in 
1973 and his opponent thought that voters hearing his voice on a 
Saturday morning show would influence voters so he used some type of 
"equal time" argument so that the Los Angeles station wouldn't show it. 
Sulu wasn't in the second episode broadcast ("Yesteryear") so that one 
was shown in Los Angeles.   
>>
You know, I've heard that story, but was never sure how much truth was in
it.  That might be worth asking George on his Facebook page to see if he
knows.
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