CB>   RM> You've been repeating this mantra for some time now, and
CB>   RM> with all due respect to Mr. Deming, I don't think that his
CB>   RM> theories on manufacturing necessarily carry over to
CB>   RM> education.  Specifically, I find it hard to accept that
CB>   RM> having exit exams wouldn't improve the quality of our
CB>   RM> graduates.  If nothing else, it would encourage students to
CB>  Actually, his theories do carry over--I presume that his ideas about
CB>  testing bother you.
CB>  Actually, the type of test that you mention, (an exit test), might
CB>  serve to motivate some-possibly raising their score, for others
CB>  who are quite capable, it might decrease their score due to
CB>  fear, etc.. I think that the quality of education a student
CB>  receives would not increase at all
I don't know...perhaps the quality of education the student received
_might_ improve as a result of such a test. If the test were set at
an appropriate level of difficulty, which required a higher standard
than was currently demanded in the classroom, the teacher(s) might
respond, in an effort to help their students pass the test, by improving
what they do in the classroom. Hence, improved quality in the
education the student is receiving.
CB> --this is different from the
CB>  quality of graduates that you speak about.  You might find
CB>  graduate quality---but where do you set the test level?
CB>  One graduate a year, two, more??? Where do you set the level, (or the
CB>  basket for Matt)?
First off, I will concede that the quality of education is not identical to
the quality of the graduate. However, these are not independent, unrelated
quantities. You can't produce a quality graduate from a non-quality ed
program (actually, some kids who are independently motivated may go off and
learn things on their own. I've seen this happen before. But it is
certainly an anommally and not something that you would see happening much.)
Whereas, even with a quality education program in place, you can still
produce low quality graduates, since the student has his/her own free will
to decide whether or not they want to expend any effort to learn the
material.
Secondly, which would you rather have, given a choice? (and assuming
independence...which doesn't really exist) A quality ed program or
quality graduates. I'd say, quality graduates. The whole reason for the
existence of the schools is the students. This is what we should be
concerned with.
I think that the AP exams do, in many cases, improve the quality of the
course that high school students take, since the teacher must strive to
prepare the students for the exam. Well, some teachers just teach to the
test, and this isn't real helpful for the students, and the quality of
such courses isn't that high. However, I believe this is because the teacher
doesn't have a real thorough foundation in the subject matter they are
teaching, and believes this is the best way to teach the students the
material (or the best that teacher can do, at any rate). For such a 
ituation,
the students are not receiving a lesser quality course as a result of
the exam waiting for them at the end of the year.
Sheila
 * SLMR 2.1a *
--- DB 1.39/004485
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