> BL> I'd like to see AVT points-only off Paul, or just move to Locuser

 > FM> just the same boring old farts boring each other shitless.

 > BL> as we did in the great AIDS debate,

 > NP> The answer to this appears to be ......

 > NP> Pauls points talk to one another in LOCUSER with NO Outsiders
 > NP>                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^
 > NP> (David D to be included in this, and Poe Den etc, if the rest agree)

 > Poe and Den dont even read here.

No but they probably would if the were to get AVT from Paul.

 > NP> This means that LOCUSER can NOT be read by anyone other
 > NP> than Pauls Points, (and approved others :-).) This gives
 > NP> us a _controlled_ readership It would also mean that David
 > NP> Drummond should remove user access from his BBS to TML
 > NP> echos (LOCUSER & LOCSYSOP) if they a publicly available.

 > Paul gives auto access to those to his new points
 > anyway, so its not secure from 'outsiders' anyway.

If the new points don't pass it to anyone else it is.


 > NP> It would also mean that I cut the current feed of LOCUSER to Teddy.
 > NP> AVTECH is then only used to talk to the other people.

 > Some of Pauls points do appear to prefer to be able to chat in say
 > LOCUSER without having to get into the bear pit of AVT and presumably
 > some who dont want to risk the wrath of fidoWankers on say norty words
 > or rude remarks about Trev etc may still want to be able to do that.

That's the idea I was trying to put across.

 > BL> It's obvious that we keep getting up the FIDO-drongos noses, and
 > BL> it is not going to get any better. IMO, it would be better to cut
 > BL> our losses and go private now, before a poofter or politically
 > BL> correct cunt turns nasty and tries to do us harm. And they can.

 > NP> I agree with BOB that there is a risk, (however small),

 > They cant do us any harm at all.

Until someone tries out a test case on something a participant says.
I know the chances are small by why take any chances. We KNOW there a a
heap of dipshits out there, and one day one of them will try to get smart.
I don't think any one of us wants any more trouble than we have already.
I certainly don't.!!


 > NP> so keep most of the chat to LOCUSER  where NO ONE ELSE CAN READ IT.

 > Dunno, I quite enjoy trailing my coat |-)


I KNOW that !!!!
Just do it in the other Fido echoes. There are plenty to choose from :-)

 > NP> Anyone can then UUE in Locuser, as long as this does not
 > NP> cause a problem for the STD callers. (Any file to be UUE'd
 > NP> should at least be compressed _before_ the encoding)

 > The main UUCODERS dont even get LOCUSER. Only one does in fact.

I am saying that they GET IT and use it for UUE's (or use tics).


 > NP> I feel that if the LOCUSER thing was put into action, then
 > NP> AVT traffic drops off, no UUE's, and wait and see what happens.

Locuser or another LOCAL echo

 > Yeah, I bet it was just a bitch by the main mail movers about the
 > UUCODES with the usual little stinger on content just to flaunt their
 > importance. Without there being any real risk of that mattering much.
 > And if they choose to stop, who gives a damn, we move it instead.

As I said.  Wait and see.  The next move is theirs.


 > NP> If the AVT feed eventually does get cut then all we have to do is hook
 > NP> in SA (somehow, possibly RG) and handle the feeds ourselves privately.

 > Yep.

 > NP> IOW remove the main cause for complaints to LOCUSER and see what gives.

 > Or just to UUCODES by FREQ.

As described earlier.


 > FM> On the original question, isn't one of the functions of the moderator
 > FM> to keep the FidoGods off our backs? Shouldn't Rod Speed be fixing this?

 > NP> I don't think that anyone reading the echo on a casual basis would
 > NP> realise that there WAS a moderator, and THIS is part of the problem.

 > I dont believe it. Everyone assumes that there is one, there are only a
 > quite small number where there isnt one, and the usual thing is to ASK
 > if you dont know. I just dont believe that the fido snoopers dont know.

They just don't _want_ to know.
They can QUITE CORRECTLY claim there are no moderator notices at the moment


 > NP> It was only when the complaints about lost mail occured that
 > NP> the mail movers _bothered_ to look at what they were carrying.

 > I doubt that too. Its pretty clear that some do run auto UUCODE
 > detectors
 > and Mal I think it was had someone bitch to him about it at one time.

OK it was UUE's, but now they have added other gripes....


 > NP> I know that you have the same attitude to Fido Gods
 > NP> (and rules) that the rest of us individualists have but.....

 > NP> If the the Moderstor of AVT was to post
 > NP> the rules (such as they are :-) every week,

 > Dunno, I find those a pain in the echoes I read. Even every few months.

Post it from THE MODERATOR and put him in your twit list like every one else.
That way you won't be annoyed by them


 > NP> then it would be seen by the casual reader that ..

 > NP> 1 There is a moderator.

 > Thats rather pointless when there are no rules to adhere to.

Yes there are. You posted them when you took over as moderator, and
overuled the amended rules that Bill had posted previously.


 > And since Teddy maintains the list, its there to look for,
 > and any FidoWanker knows that thats the first place to look.

I agree.
But if posted in the echo, then they are being hit in the face with them.
Thay can't comment on the content and at the same time state that they
haven't seen the rules :-)

 > NP> 2. They can see that from the rules that
 > NP>    the discussion of any subject is OK

 > That should be rather obvious from the messages.

It is!!!   But hit them in the face with it in a RULES message that makes
it formal and it is stated formally and plainly in clear English.

If it's too much trouble for you, dig them out of your archives and send
them to me, and I will post them for you.

If you don't want to see them, then Twit the moderator.


 > NP> 3. That the rules specifically state that the echo is for
 > NP>    discussion BETWEEN AV Techs and not necessarily about AV matters.

 > Thats included in 2

OK then include it in 2.  Written formally by the moderator in clear terms.


 > NP> I am certain that the weekly rule posting bit will go along
 > NP> way towards calming the current complaints and removing any
 > NP> possible future complaints, as there was an assumption (albeit
 > NP> incorrect) that they were moving a Technical echo, and got
 > NP> upset when thay actually discovered its content.

 > I find that VERY hard to believe.

YOU BETTER BELIVE IT, I got it from the horses mouth.  It may be lie and a
heap of shit, but THAT was the calim !!!!!


 > And it doesnt
 > explain the very considerable number of non technical
 > echoes that are moved too. Like say BBS_USER.

"They don't claim or by their name appear to be a Technical echo"

Those are NOT my words  I just heard them.


 > NP> If the rules are there for them to read, then there is less risk of
 > NP> movers making false assumptions. And nor can the casual intruder :-)

 > Or if its the first time its ever caused a problem in the YEARS
 > we have being going now, why does it actually matter a damn ?

To shut up the winging bastards, and not cause any more expense or hassles
for those who would have to call STD for AVTECH who currently don't have
that expense.

You and I and a few others call STD already.

I don't think we should force the others into that situation unless it is
absolutely necessary !!!


 > NP> If the echo still gets dropped after all that.. then FUCK'EM !!!!

 > Or fuckem anyway.

You can. I'm not in the least bit attracted.

 > NP> We can probably do a better job on our own considering
 > NP> that I NOW know where the Black hole is, but the hope
 > NP> of convincing any Sysop of it, is very remote.

 > Dunno, the main problem with just dumping the main file movers
 > is that it does reduce the possibility of the occasional new
 > blood. Sure, most are fuckwits who piss off quick, but some arent.

So keep the current situation if we can !!!!!!
Keep the content the same
Post some rules to shut up the wingers

 > NP> If you so desire, feel free to add your name to
 > NP> relevant section so that a general feeling can be gauged

 > NP> Go Private
 > NP> ===========
 > NP> B1
 > NP> Encyclopedea S
 > NP> Brengun
     > Loony

 > I havent said that, and neither has Paul as far as I am aware. I just
 > mean that *IF* the current mail movers choose to stop moving AVT, we
 > just get someone who is on the other side of that gap to move it
 > instead.

That is what I was talking about.
Don't give in on content, remove UUE's
If they cut the feed THEN go private.


 > NP> If we have to      (understandably, as there is an added cost)
 > NP> =====================
 > NP> Old Bastard
 > NP> B2
 > NP> Bulldog

 > I think Paul and me should be in here.

Well alter it  to suit and repost it !!!!


 > I'm not convinced there is even an added cost.

The above DO NOT get AVT from Paul
There IS an added cost if David or Bill have to cart AVT STD


 > NP> Keep it on the Backbone if possible
 > NP> ======================================
 > NP> Eliza

 > NP> Give in
 > NP> =============
 > NP>                All names appearing in this section will be
 > NP>                shot as soon as General Anarchy is President :-)

 > Sooner the better, shoot anyone who dares to favor this option |-)

At least we agree on that that one. :-)


Cheers
Niels Petersen

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