BL> I'd like to see AVT points-only off Paul, or just move to Locuser

FM> I think this runs the risk that we'll never see any new blood,
FM> just the same boring old farts boring each other shitless.

BL> as we did in the great AIDS debate,

NP> The answer to this appears to be ......

NP> Pauls points talk to one another in LOCUSER with NO Outsiders
NP>                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^
NP> (David D to be included in this, and Poe Den etc, if the rest agree)

Poe and Den dont even read here.

Dunno, I think its more practical to have a NEW area on Pauls which you
then operate like that.

NP> This means that LOCUSER can NOT be read by anyone other
NP> than Pauls Points, (and approved others :-).) This gives
NP> us a _controlled_ readership It would also mean that David
NP> Drummond should remove user access from his BBS to TML
NP> echos (LOCUSER & LOCSYSOP) if they a publicly available.

Paul gives auto access to those to his new points
anyway, so its not secure from 'outsiders' anyway.

NP> It would also mean that I cut the current feed of LOCUSER to Teddy.

NP> AVTECH is then only used to talk to the other people.

Some of Pauls points do appear to prefer to be able to chat in say
LOCUSER without having to get into the bear pit of AVT and presumably
some who dont want to risk the wrath of fidoWankers on say norty words
or rude remarks about Trev etc may still want to be able to do that.

NP> More below....

BL> It's obvious that we keep getting up the FIDO-drongos noses, and
BL> it is not going to get any better. IMO, it would be better to cut
BL> our losses and go private now, before a poofter or politically
BL> correct cunt turns nasty and tries to do us harm. And they can.

NP> I agree with BOB that there is a risk, (however small),

They cant do us any harm at all.

NP> so keep most of the chat to LOCUSER  where NO ONE ELSE CAN READ IT.

Dunno, I quite enjoy trailing my coat |-)

NP> Anyone can then UUE in Locuser, as long as this does not
NP> cause a problem for the STD callers. (Any file to be UUE'd
NP> should at least be compressed _before_ the encoding)

The main UUCODERS dont even get LOCUSER. Only one does in fact.

FM> I prefer Peter's suggestion, if it comes to the crunch. We remain a
FM> national echo which is available to any sysop who is prepared to carry
FM> it (maybe a few get lost) but are responsible for moving our own mail.

NP> We cant have a private feed of AVT by ourselves as well as a
NP> public one through the main mail movers, as this would cause dupes.

Nope, there is plenty of that stuff going on in Fido. Yes, it
wouldnt make sense for say Alex to start carting it to Melburg
while ever it still gets carted to Melburg now, but if they decide
they want to stop carting it to Melburg, he can start doing that then.

NP> I feel that if the LOCUSER thing was put into action, then
NP> AVT traffic drops off, no UUE's, and wait and see what happens.

Yeah, I bet it was just a bitch by the main mail movers about the
UUCODES with the usual little stinger on content just to flaunt their
importance. Without there being any real risk of that mattering much.
And if they choose to stop, who gives a damn, we move it instead.

NP> If the AVT feed eventually does get cut then all we have to do is hook
NP> in SA (somehow, possibly RG) and handle the feeds ourselves privately.

Yep.

NP> IOW remove the main cause for complaints to LOCUSER and see what gives.

Or just to UUCODES by FREQ.

NP> Don't scream _traitor_ yet !!!!!!

Why not, might wake everyone up.

FM> On the original question, isn't one of the functions of the moderator
FM> to keep the FidoGods off our backs? Shouldn't Rod Speed be fixing this?

NP> I don't think that anyone reading the echo on a casual basis would
NP> realise that there WAS a moderator, and THIS is part of the problem. 

I dont believe it. Everyone assumes that there is one, there are only a
quite small number where there isnt one, and the usual thing is to ASK
if you dont know. I just dont believe that the fido snoopers dont know.

NP> It was only when the complaints about lost mail occured that
NP> the mail movers _bothered_ to look at what they were carrying.

I doubt that too. Its pretty clear that some do run auto UUCODE detectors
and Mal I think it was had someone bitch to him about it at one time.

NP> TO ROD     (Please consider carefully)

I'm into frivolity myself |-)

NP> I know that you have the same attitude to Fido Gods
NP> (and rules) that the rest of us individualists have but.....

NP> If the the Moderstor of AVT was to post
NP> the rules (such as they are :-) every week,

Dunno, I find those a pain in the echoes I read. Even every few months.

NP> then it would be seen by the casual reader that ..

NP> 1 There is a moderator.

Thats rather pointless when there are no rules to adhere to.
And since Teddy maintains the list, its there to look for,
and any FidoWanker knows that thats the first place to look.

NP> 2. They can see that from the rules that
NP>    the discussion of any subject is OK

That should be rather obvious from the messages.

NP> 3. That the rules specifically state that the echo is for
NP>    discussion BETWEEN AV Techs and not necessarily about AV matters.

Thats included in 2

NP> 4. On Topic warning must be given

NP> 5.   ???????

NP> I am certain that the weekly rule posting bit will go along
NP> way towards calming the current complaints and removing any
NP> possible future complaints, as there was an assumption (albeit
NP> incorrect) that they were moving a Technical echo, and got
NP> upset when thay actually discovered its content.

I find that VERY hard to believe. And it doesnt
explain the very considerable number of non technical
echoes that are moved too. Like say BBS_USER.

NP> If the rules are there for them to read, then there is less risk of
NP> movers making false assumptions. And nor can the casual intruder :-)

Or if its the first time its ever caused a problem in the YEARS
we have being going now, why does it actually matter a damn ?

NP> If the echo still gets dropped after all that.. then FUCK'EM !!!!

Or fuckem anyway.

NP> We can probably do a better job on our own considering
NP> that I NOW know where the Black hole is, but the hope
NP> of convincing any Sysop of it, is very remote.

Dunno, the main problem with just dumping the main file movers
is that it does reduce the possibility of the occasional new
blood. Sure, most are fuckwits who piss off quick, but some arent.

NP> If you so desire, feel free to add your name to
NP> relevant section so that a general feeling can be gauged

NP> Go Private
NP> ===========
NP> B1
NP> Encyclopedea S
NP> Brengun
NP> Loony

I havent said that, and neither has Paul as far as I am aware. I just
mean that *IF* the current mail movers choose to stop moving AVT, we
just get someone who is on the other side of that gap to move it instead.
Say if the feed to Melburg dies, Alex gets it from Paul and dumps it into
Melburg instead. Clearly is easiest for a BBS to do that rather than a point.

NP> If we have to      (understandably, as there is an added cost)
NP> =====================
NP> Old Bastard
NP> B2
NP> Bulldog

I think Paul and me should be in here.
I'm not convinced there is even an added cost.

NP> Keep it on the Backbone if possible
NP> ======================================
NP> Eliza

NP> Give in
NP> =============
NP>                All names appearing in this section will be
NP>                shot as soon as General Anarchy is President :-)

Sooner the better, shoot anyone who dares to favor this option |-)
@EOT:

---