RW> In some cases it is.  The rules on weapons and drugs at schools
 RW> are backed up by law.  Carry either on school grounds and go to
 RW> jail.
TR> Negative, they are not. All of the examples you cited were
TR> not the law, they were school policy. Your examples of
Yes they are. The school board can, if they choose,
have a student arrested for a weapons or drug charge.
If the school decides to search a class of students at
random and find a student w/ drugs they can have him
arrested.  This w/o any PC for the search.  Slightly
off the ZT topic but it shows how schools can use their
rules in a LE way.
 RW> You're missing the point I'm trying to make.  Schools now have ZT and
 RW> it has gotten out of control.  What is to prevent it to get out of
 RW> control is the police forces?
TR> I'm not missing any point at all, and it is only your
TR> opinion that school policies are out of control. For
Seems to me you have.  You keep saying that school
rules are not laws (duh!) and therefore have nothing to
do with a LEA having a ZT policy.  I'm saying that we
have an example of how a ZT policy has gone to extremes
and do we really want to see if the police can do
better because if they can't the problems will be much
greater.
TR> example, I could argue both sides on the carrying of glucose
TR> tabs in your pocket. One could argue that wrapped and known
TR> substances would be smarter since many dangerous drugs are
TR> distributed in that manner. This school rule would not be
TR> without merit, and it doesn't leave the diabetic without
TR> other logical choices which would take care of the same
The point is not the rule its the fact that the kid
with the sugar pill is treated the same way as the kid
caught with a pound of cocaine because of the ZT.
Which do you think is a better punishment for the kid
with the sugar pill;
To have to do research and give a report on how people
have given or received something only to find out it
was dangerous.  E.g. the girl(s) who baked the Ex-lax
brownies for the teacher's lounge.  Or
To be expelled, forced to go to an "alternative" school
with kids who are real trouble makers and to have the
notation in his record that this action was taken
because of a violations of the school's drug policy.
TR> problem. Their may be tons of folks in your community who
TR> are tickled pink about the rules in your school, especially
TR> if they make illegal drug distribution more difficult.
It has been my experience that VERY few people know
anything about the school rules.  They all get the
little handout stating the rules (in a very simple
form) and trash them.  When I tell them that their kid
could be labeled a drug problem for having an
antihistamine pill in their pocket when he has a cold
they think I'm crazy.  That is until they look at the
rules.  Now is this policy making "illegal drug
distribution more difficult"?
TR> problem at all. Second, school rules have a completely
TR> different process than public law. There is a lot more
Not really.  Both are suggested, written and passed by
a group of elected representatives.  The majority of
the rules/laws are passed w/o any public debate and the
public knows nothing about them until they violate the
new law/rule.
TR> scrutiny in public law, and there are tests which are
TR> usually applied before they are even discussed by the
TR> legislature. Many don't even make it out of committee
TR> because they are deemed to be unconstitutional, expensive,
TR> difficult to enforce, etc.
Same can be said about school rules, more or less.
 RW> And a police officer is just a city worker until a crime is
 RW> committed, so?  BTW, the crime doesn't have to be committed if front
 RW> of him.
TR> Not a city worker, a school official. BTW, there are many
Really?  The officer is paid by the school board like a
teacher or janitor?  Nope.  His pay comes from the PD
which gets the money from the city budget which makes
him a city employee.
TR> misdemeanor criminal offenses that have to be committed in
TR> the presence of a police officer before the officer can file
Hum. . .so if I commit a misdemeanor in front of 30
people I can get away with it as long as none of them
are a cop?  WOW!!  You and I both know that's a load of
fecal matter.  If a teacher sees a crime and reports it
to the cop the cop HAS to take action.
 RW> happened.  Was he acting as a Wal Mart employee, a private
 RW> contractor or as a city employee?
TR> The officer would be a Wal Mart employee, but he or she
TR> would have full police power if a law was violated. Most
I still think there would be several sticky legal
questions if something went wrong.  Especially if the
'crime' was questionable, such as using force to stop
someone who is thought to be a shoplifter from leaving
the store only to find out that the 'stolen' item
belonged to the "shoplifter". 
TR> Most departments require the officer to get a signed
TR> contract that defines liability for injuries, etc., or there
TR> is a standard form which places certain liabilities on the
In this day and age a contract means very little.  The
courts have repeatedly through out binding contracts.
TR> employer. Example: the officer gets hurt, does Wal Mart or
TR> the city pay the medical bills? 
Wouldn't this depend on when he was hurt.  If he was
hurt while he was attempting to arrest someone the
would, the way I understand it, no longer be a WM
employee but a police officer so the city would have to
pay.  If he slipped on a dropped banana while walking
to the restroom then WM would pay.
Of course contract law is a strange beast. . .
                      Remember:  Freedom isn't Free!
--- timEd-B11
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