SH> i've tried to make the point myself that what is needed is a sea(?)
SH> change, and that is only likely to occur via a change of government.

Trouble is the dorks blew it. Scared the electorate silly and they
decided that it wasnt worth the risk. They might well have kissed
goodbye to their prospects for another 10 years. Particularly when
they cant even manage to organise their own leadership. Why would
anyone ever think that if they cant run their own party, they can
run the country ? Its a hell of a problem, the electorate just wont
ignore that stuff.

SH> I will say in agreement with both bob and rod that button was
SH> a minister who did good things, in fact much of the keating
SH> before the hawke challenge was ok,

Yeah, they were doing pretty well there for a while OTW, even giving
the airline pilots a good kicking when they needed it. I didnt think
it would be possible for a labor government to do that.

SH> apart from the 1985(?) wheels off the cart episode,

Yeah, all came gloriously unstuck. Dunno tho that the libs would
have done much better thru those times, mainly coz it was just
about universal in all the mainstream first world countrys too.
And at least we managed collectively to not have a Great Depression
as a result this time around. We do appear to be learning a bit.

SH> but he fact is this is a tired old complacent government with no
SH> momentum except for peripheral issues, and frankly i'll welcome
SH> the opportunity to wish them well on their way at the next election.

Yes, and thats precisely what the electorate felt in the runup to
the last federal election, they had stuffed up, time for a change.
Then the coalition blew it even more catastrophically than federal
labor did by being silly enough to have an idealog who is a political
naif being allowed to have almost total say in all policy and single
handedly ruined their prospects and lost the unlosable election.

God knows what you do now. I'm not convinced there is an answer
on how to recover from that utter debacle. You probably have
to just wait for a few elections and hope the electorate forget.
And with the economy picking up very considerably, there is no
way they are going to take a chance in the next election when
the didnt last time when things were much more visibly stuffed.

SH> Sometime i'm afraid i could not have said until lazarus howard returned..

Trouble is we really dont know what the public really thinks about
that yet. It could very easily be regarded as graphic evidence that
they must be extremely desperate if that was the best they could
come up with for a leader. After having put in a child for a mans
job before that. It could very easily be yet another foot shot.

I'm not even convinced that if they had had a bloodless leadership
change to Howard immediately after the election debacle that it
would have worked. Then you have the endless series of running
jokes like Bronwen and stuff. They really do have a hell of a
smell of death about them.

--- PQWK202