RB> I wanted to chime in and say that when Don talks about true freedom -
 RB> this is  what he is talking about, I think. Your quote above is just
 RB> totally patronizing
This was a message to Don Box. Don and I have been on opposing sides of
several discussions. Just why do you think I would have a desire to patronize
Don? If I disagree with Don, I've done so openly and fairly often in the
past. If I agree with Don or ask a question, is that what you call
patronizing?
 RB>                           _you_ have mixed feelings about "street
 RB> people," _you_ think that they are okay, as long as you don't see
 RB> or hear them or have to talk to them, _you_ decide what they should
 RB> do with their money, the alcoholism rate in the police profession
 RB> is widespread, but someone with no home can't get drunk on your
 RB> fifty cents.
Ryan, I really don't need anyone to speak for me, I'll speak for myself.
Don't criticize for the words I didn't say. If you wish to criticize, do so
for what I said, not for what you made up. I did say something very specific
about my money that I have given to street people, and this part of your
message is correct. I will not buy booze or dope for street people. If you
don't like this or understand it, I could really care less. They can decide
what they do with their money, but I'll decide what I do with my money. If
you want to buy booze or dope, go to work and buy your own! If you are an
alcoholic or a drug addict, that is your problem and your expense. Ryan, ARE
YOU SAYING THAT WORKING PEOPLE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO SUPPORT SOMEONE'S
ALCOHOL OR DRUG HABIT? If not, you'll probably have a tough time explaining
just what you did say. Or maybe you meant that only police officers have an
obligation to support the alcohol or drug habit of others???
Ryan, tell us everything you know about alcoholism in the police profession
and where you got your information. In the same reply, please tell us what
this has to do with an obligation for a police officer to buy alcohol or dope
for a street person. I don't have a clue how you will come up with a logical
reply, but I'm going to ask you the question anyway. This is quite different
than the questions I asked Don, as it was apparent that Don had a different
perspective than mine and I was interested in the information he was sharing.
You simply took a cheap shot at me and indicated Don wasn't smart enough to
figure out which discussions he wanted to take part in. Here's a NEWS FLASH
for you: Don and I are both adults. I won't buy booze or dope for you. Don is
an intelligent person, and he has added much to many discussions in this
echo.
 RB> Where I live, panhandling is illegal if it is done near an ATM, near a
 RB> bus  stop, if you ask twice, if you touch the person you are asking,
 RB> etc etc. Laws  like that are classist in nature and are symptomatic of
 RB> a society that forces  people into desperate situations only to
 RB> stigmatize them as incompetent and  unworthy of food and shelter.
Are we going to limit the discussion to food, clothing, shelter, and other
necessities, or are we going to add alcohol and dope to the equation? This is
why I will not hand money to a panhandler. I've taken many to buy food, and
it didn't take long with some of them to find out that is not what they had
in mind. I would have to be honest and say that I have a lot more respect for
those who ask for work before they ask for the handout. Do you have a term
worse than "classist" for someone with this opinion? It's probably a little
late for this question, but am I patronizing you by replying to your message
or asking you a few questions about your comments? Heaven forbid that anyone
would think that, I might not be able to bear the pressure of the thought.
 So, you think that panhandling should be legal? I assume by your comment
that panhandlers should also be able to touch you?? I also assume that
panhandling is good for our society and should be encouraged as opposed to
being against the law?? Make your argument, I'm interested in your thoughts
on this subject UNLESS YOU THINK I'M TRYING TO PATRONIZE YOU.
Maybe there should be a little bit of humor from time to time. I have this
picture of a 500 pound panhandler who grabs your leg and won't let go. He
yells "PLEASE" over and over, but whispers, "a 5 will do it".
 RB> The fact of the matter is that most squatters, homeless, dumpster
 RB> diving kids I  know are light years more self sufficient than the
 RB> rich kid who has had the bill paid the whole way by daddy warbucks.
You are probably correct, but I've been none of the above. I have thoughts
based on my own personal experience and my perspective on life. Discussions
from different perspectives can be very interesting. Just for the record, I
don't think anyone using this echo is in any position to patronize anyone
else. That term usually refers to a person using someone for some sort of
gain. I don't know what kind of gain would be possible here, and I didn't
appreciate the reference.
Tom Rightmer - A Victims' Rights Advocate
... Remember: No matter where you go; there you are.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
---------------