Salutatio Hal!
04-Apr-98, Hal White wrote to Richard Meic
          Subject: Creationist occultism
 HW> -> HW> Are you saying you think you should respect the lives of
 HW> all -> >humans equally?    and their interests?
 RM>> I was saying that I respect the lives of all creatures, that I am
 RM>> a -> moral being...
 HW> Are you saying you just find yourself respecting creatures, or
 HW> that it's your policy to which you are committed?
Perhaps it is both.
 HW> IOW if one time,
 HW> one day, if find yourself not respecting X very much...do you say
 HW> to yourself..."What the hell, I'm killing you [X] " OR  "I'd
 HW> better cultivate some respect for you [X]"  or at least act like
 HW> it?
Ahhhh, note that I said "respect other creatures _lives_", in that I refuse
to kill my fellow Earth inhabitants.  I still do not have to "respect"
one who is just out to hurt others, but I still would not kill that 
person.
 HW> ->  and that I am also an atheist.
 HW> Fine.  Some of my best friends...
 RM> ->  I was trying to get -> the point across that one does not have
 RM> to believe in a god to be a -> moral and decent person.
 HW> Many Buddhists do not "believe in a god". Secular materialists do
 HW> not believe in a god. All may act in moral fashion.
   
There is another aspect.  I do not need any religion in order to be 
moral, either.
 HW> S. Weil argued, however, that it is essentially a religious
 HW> position to adhere to the principle of holding equal respect for
 HW> all humans.
 
I suppose it can be view by an outsider (one who is not in my mind) that
it is a form of religion.  But to me, in my mind, it was a choice to be
this way, not because a god will punish me if I don't, not because I may
come back in another life to be punished if I don't, but because I
simply choose to because _I_ think it is right.
 HW> I think she meant that from your secular postition it would not be
 HW> possible to *provide justification for * such a policy. I think
 HW> she may be right.  (Note that this is NOT to question your 'decent
 HW> behavior' towards all--let's assume that.}
                
I know it may sound circular, but I am moral because I choose to be 
moral and because my chosen moral code states that I should be moral.
perhaps it would be better understood it I said that my moral code
arises out of compassion, empathy, and perhaps a bit of sympathy too.
 HW> -> HW> then in what sense are  you, as you claim, immoral?
 RM>> I have been told by a few that I cannot be moral without a god.
 >> They  are simply wrong and I was using sarcasm to push the point
 HW> >home.
 HW> It is presumptuous of any religious person to tell those outside
 HW> his religion that they are necessarily immoral. Such a person
 HW> would do well to examimine the morality of those within his/her
 HW> religion.                                       
 
Ever hear of Todd Henson?
 RM>> I am sorry, Hal.  I guess my sarcasm didn't reach everyone.  :)
 HW> Irony and sarcasm are hard to detect between strangers in a
 HW> written medium.  (I now label these usages). Hal White.
                         
Thanks, Hal.
 Dicere...
 email address (vrmeic@nucleus.com) 
Richard Meic
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