CHARLES BEAMS spoke of The Real Story 2 to DAN TRIPLETT on 12-24-96
CB>DT>I've had the same trouble myself as I have many issues I am
CB>DT>"discussing"  on several forums.  It is interesting how "experts"
CB>DT>can arrive at  different conclusions when looking at the same
CB>DT>data.  The book _The_  _Manufactured_ _Crisis_ is an interesting
CB>DT>read and now when I read  reports in the newspaper or hear
CB>DT>something on TV regarding the state of  American education I
CB>DT>listen with a bit of skepticism.  Who are we to  believe?
CB>It is a matter of degree.  Even as I read your earlier post on 
CB>_A_Nation_At_Risk_ and _The_Manufactured_Crisis, I was fairly 
CB>comfortable that I could poke holes into nearly every argument. 
I'm sure you could.  Some have already done so.  And these "hole pokers" 
have had holes poked in their counter arguments as well.  And the beat 
goes on....
 For 
CB>example, your post quoted an argument regarding SAT scores - noting 
CB>that the decline in SAT scores can be attributed to changing 
CB>demographics and changing population.  Fair enough - but the article 
CB>never denied that SAT scores have fallen.  Isn't it fair for the 
CB>public to expect that schools improve in their ability to educate 
CB>over a 40-year period? 
You are assuming that things haven't improved.  I think I also posted 
information that clearly showed improvements as well.  When lumped 
together, the scores don't look so hot. But when looking at specifics 
(apples vers apples) we do see improvements.  When the Secretary of 
Education acknowledges that the kids of today are as well educated as 
their parents of 20 years ago then the notion that we have declined in 
the past 20 years doesn't seem to make sense.  I think that schools have 
improved in their ability to educate an ever-changing and continually-
challenging student population over the past 40 years.  In spite of the 
many social factors that work against schools (which weren't present 40 
years ago) education is doing well despite many obstacles.  Can we do 
better?  YES....we must....I don't think things are good enough.  But it 
will take a social partnership...schools and society...
I recently read that class sizes of 15 and less show measurable 
improvements in student learning.  Will the people of America be willing 
to pay for these improvements?  I doubt it.  The government is not 
really committed to education.  Look at the overall budgets and the 
waste and the "pork" and what does that say about the value of 
education.  We get minimum funding and yet are expected to produce 
"maximum" results.  Doesn't make sense.  
 Isn't it fair to ask the schools and 
CB>educators in general to learn enough about the way students learn so 
CB>that they can respond to the need to get more of our children into 
CB>college today than we did 40-years ago?  
I think we are doing this:  Learning about the way students learn....
Why is it okay for us to 
CB>expect that everything improve in our society and our economy except 
CB>schools, which can remain unchanged?
It is not ok...but "everything" in our society is not improving and our 
economy certainly is not either.  
CB>I have long argued in this echo that we are doing as good a job 
CB>today as we did 40-years ago - maybe better.  But it isn't good 
CB>enough - we're failing to educate well as great a percentage today 
CB>as we need to educate well.
Agreed....and for things to get better it will take much more than 
simply writing a new set of higher standards.  It will cost some 
$$...training, materials, support, facilities, class sizes is a big 
issue....Why has California decided to have a class size limit in it's 
primary grades?  Apparently they see a connection between class size and 
learning.  Can a burnt out teacher teach well?  Washington is placing a 
huge emphasis on it's new learning essentials.  And yet, last year, the 
State Legislature decided to make massive cuts in the Special Ed 
funding.  So now, I have less aide time but more special ed kids.  Im 
not talking about ADD and other labeled kids.  Im talking about mentally 
retarded children being mainstreamed without the needed support.  I have 
a child who has about a 59 IQ.  He is 7.  He wets and occasionally 
messes.  I have 23 other students.  Guess who gets to deal with his 
wetting/messing problem?  
CB>As I said it is a matter of degree.  What you say is good enough is 
CB>not good enough for those in industry and business who are hiring 
CB>half their mathematicians from overseas every year.  It is not good 
CB>enough for the colleges who are ready to educate more of our 
CB>students but find that too many who WANT to attend college are 
CB>simply not well prepared.
I don't think I said it is good enough.  I am saying that it is pretty 
good considering what we in education have to work with...the many other 
issues that come into play that influence success/failure of our 
schools.  
CB>We can do better - we MUST do better.
Yes.....and it will take all of us....can't just give a mandate and 
expect changes to just happen.
Dan
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