Dustin expressed precisely :
> FromTheRafters  wrote in
> news:lstf34$um8$1@speranza.aioe.org: 
>
>> Jax pretended :
>>> FromTheRafters  wrote in
>>> news:lrtio7$ndd$1@speranza.aioe.org: 
>>> 
>>>> After serious thinking Dustin wrote :
>>>>> FromTheRafters  wrote in
>>>>> news:lrte22$r6t$1 @news2.open-news-network.org: 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dustin was thinking very hard :
>>>>>>> "David W. Hodgins"  wrote in 
>>>>>>> news:op.xj4xbphsa3w0dxdave@hodgins.homeip.net: 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2014 11:18:40 -0400, Wolf K
>>>>>>>>   wrote: 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 2014-08-05 9:58 AM, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I disagree with this usage when in this context. These
>>>>>>>>>> entities exist and are accessed before there is a file
>>>>>>>>>> system extant to access true  files. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> "True" files????
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Now we're getting into the semantics of what a file is. I do
>>>>>>>> agree the boot sector and bios contain data. I don't agree
>>>>>>>> that they are files. A file has a name, that is accessible
>>>>>>>> from the os. Neither of the above have names. While some
>>>>>>>> programs can read/write them, a general file browser cannot.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Regards, Dave Hodgins
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I agree with you and FTR on this one.  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> However, this is what a "file" is becoming most likely. This
>>>>>> context is  quite different from the context we should be using
>>>>>> here. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> You can obviously see the potential for abuse this will provide?
>>>>>  
>>>>>> http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/?id=154539
>>>>> 
>>>>> Frightening....
>>>>> 
>>>>> We suggest that one aspect of this adaptation is to encompass
>>>>> metadata within a file abstraction; another has to do what such a
>>>>> shift would mean for enduring user actions such as
>>>>> ‘copy’ and
‘delete’ applicable to the
>>>>> deriving file types. We finish by arguing that there is an especial
>>>>> need to support the notion of ‘ownership’
that
>>>>> adequately serves both users and engineers as they engage with the
>>>>> world of networked sociality. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> engineers? What a fancy term for er, Microsoft programmer. :)
>>>> 
>>>> I can see it now
>>>> Definition:
>>>> 
>>>> File - an internet standard devised by Microsoft to create an 
>>>> abstraction for anything a user might need an abstraction for.
>>> 
>>> Rafters what's an abstraction?
>> 
>> In this case it's a way of making some underlying complexity seem more 
>> simple to the user. That's not an official definition, but it's close. 
>> In this sense it is the underlying, perhaps scattered, data which the 
>> user thinks of as a file being presented to the user as if it were 
>> actually a file.
>> 
>> An example is the File Transfer Protocol - you don't actually transfer 
>> a file, you "create" a file locally (zero-length) and "access" a file 
>> remotely (contains the desired data) and read it out, then write it in 
>> to the newly created file. Metadata can be sent to make the local file 
>> look like the remote file as far as timestamps and other filesytem data 
>> is concerned.
>> 
>> In this way, data which exists in chunks spread amongst many separate 
>> computers in a cloudlike fashion (like some P2P systems) can be treated 
>> (by the user) as if it were a file being transferred. Another is that a 
>> "folder" is an abstraction of a "directory" and some icons and buttons 
>> are abstractions of more complicated commmands.
>
> Very good explanation, but I fear it's totally wasted...

Yeah, sometimes I think there's someone behind Jax telling her what 
questions to ask. That was actually a very good question, and there's 
much more to it than that answer suggests.


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