RM> I think that students would be more motivated to take the
 RM> best courses, rather than simply worrying about grades.. 
CB>Hmmm, so there is a list of the "best" courses? Just wondering.
Sure you are.... Let's see if I can find a word you'll like
better... How about challenging?
 RM> Somewhere along the line, we have to decide what it is that
 RM> we want students to know (or know how to do), and test for
 RM> those things.
CB>Why don't we make sure that the majority can pass this test?
And how, pray, do we do this if we don't check to see if the
goal is reached, or what effect various educational changes 
may have on the outcome?  After all, we have established no
baseline from which to reference....
CB>Are you sure that the testing that is done in your state 
CB>increases the quality of graduates?  Test scores in several 
CB>different national tests have been rising slowly over the 
CB>past 10-15 years. Maybe the scores are due to some other 
CB>factor.
 RM> Sure?  No, can't say I'm sure, but NY has a pretty good 
 RM> track record; especially considering the population density
 RM> and poverty levels within the state.  For a state which is
 RM> close to 50% urban population, our kids fare pretty well in
 RM> comparisons with other states...
CB>Great--but then the scores your students are achieving are 
CB>not due to the test being there, they are due to the 
CB>education they have received, no?
And without the test, how would we know that; or ANYTHING,
for that matter?  And this ignores the DISTINCT 
possibility that the presence of the test altered the 
behavior of the students, RESULTING in an improvement in
their educational achievement!  Simply assuming that the
test has no effect is pretty sloppy reasoning...
I'm afraid you're not going to convince me that a Deming 
company does no quality checking.  If they didn't, then 
they're allowing their customers to do it for them (which 
is not a particularly good idea, imo).  
All mechanical devices; robots, etc, "drift" in their 
settings; either from wear and tear, or during maintainence 
cycles.  If the company doesn't track the output, they
cannot detect this "drift", and before long you're out of 
spec.  If you're telling me that Deming companies do not do 
this type of check, I'm sorry, but I simply don't believe
it...  Modern companies track their process statistically,
sampling here and there (not everything).  If 7 successive
samplings are out of range, then the process is out of
control.  One doesn't mess with the process, however, if
1 or 2 samples are out of range, as this can be attributed 
to statistical variability.  Now, if you prefer to sample
randomly among students, I guess I can buy that point of 
view, but the question remains as to whether the principles
of manufacture hold for people and social development.  I'm
not sure they do, and I've seen nothing from you that would
constitute evidence to the contrary....
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 * MR/2 2.26 * OS/2 WARP: Windows with bullet-proof glass.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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