*** Quoting Alex Shakhaylo from a message to Carol Shenkenberger ***

 CS> That has validity but still, one needs a little care when dealing with
 CS> issues that do not affect your own zone/region but *do* affect others.

AS> Sure. That's why everything should be discussed first.

Understood then.  Be aware that the smaller areas will not be able to be
heard ¨sometimes unless care is taken.

 CS> would easily pass it by a majority vote.  Z6 would lose however, it's
 CS> last bastion of nodelist corrections.

AS> I don't think the policy should order  who in particular should compil
AS> nodelist. It only should state that *Cs are responsible for the proces

Yes.  And as said, that one example is a tiny microcosm thing.  I showed it
¨only to show how lack of knowledge can be damaging.  None of us really
know how ¨all the other zones work.

Because I've found it interesting so have asked sporadically on various
things ¨for 13 years now, I have a relative grasp of some aspects in how we
differ.  ¨That does /not/ mean I know all or even pretend to do so.


 CS> There is no perfect answer to this.

AS> You should not apprehend our regions as something solid and monolithic
AS> We have here disagreements as well as every community has. Even my
AS> initiative was responded in several completely different ways :-)

Oh I am sure there are disagreements!  There is probably an unwritten
'standard ¨understanding' where you are that you may not know isnt
universal.  Until the ¨topic comes up that touches whatever this 'thing' is
though, you'll probably ¨not know it isnt universal.  To you it will just
be 'how it's done'.

You came across one just recently.  ION listings and default to
¨'fidonet.org/net' without FQDN in the nodelist.  It has both good and bad
to it ¨but I think you know now it isnt a universal assumption . 
It may become one ¨but there are technical connectivity issues with some IP
mailers.

 CS> Would you have the whole picture though?

AS> I'm afraid the whole picture is not possible in principle.

True.  Thats all that I was looking to see.  I wasnt sure.

AS> Hm .. I can't imagine that operations can be destroyed in such a way.
AS> I'm sure that our regions will operate independently of ANY policy
AS> changes.

True again but it also causes some acrimony among the 'purists' when they
find ¨one region/zone doing things differently.  Look at the messages on
how Z1 ¨routes netmail to see how some do not like it if another concept is
used.  BTW, ¨Z1 does it like your region pretty much.  Mix and match of HRN
and ERN.


 CS> You may not have been aware for example that Z6's nodelist isnt
 CS> handled by the Z6C.  Z6 is the only zone where that happens as
 CS> 'policy' but not the only one with a backup Zseg maker.

 CS> Please understand I am not beating on you.  I am trying hard to
 CS> explain that not all is as simple as it seems.  There needs to be as
 CS> much acceptance of our differences as possible to make this all work.

AS> Sure. But I don't mean to change the policy on a whim. Before any chan
AS> pass to voting they should be stated and discussed. We already have th
AS> echo (this echo), where proposal can be prepared.  So you can influenc
AS> changes before they pass to voting. After all something like FTSC can
AS> be managed to prepare proposal with a condition that every zone partic
AS> pated in a committee. The details can be discussed.

Yes.  That works for me.  I'm mostly hoping the current referendum will
pass ¨and then we can go on to changes of portions under it's easier rules.


 CS> I for one did not realize how much problem there could be to a zone,
 CS> in sysop-wide voting.  I still believe this is the best method but I
 CS> know the flaws.  Region wide voting is very valid, but weighting of
 CS> those votes based on size (which relates to number responding) can be
 CS> just as much of a problem Z1-6 wide.

AS> (sigh) I don't know the way without the flows. The only that makes me
AS> to believe in my proposal is the fact that we have nothing to compete
AS> for :-)

Well, probably the best is 1 region, 1 vote with those not voting at all,
just ¨not counted.  My own region probably wont vote.  Thats because they
are largely ¨internally directed especially just now with so much unrest in
the Philipennes.
(R64 is Pacific Island Region:  Japan, Guam, PI.  No nodes in Guam just now.)

                                       xxcarol

--- Telegard v3.09.g2-sp4