-=> Quoting MARK DEITZ to MARK ANDERSON <=-
 MD> Hi Mark (By the way, a very noble name! )
 MD> What seems to be the problem with this whole NR thing is not the NR in
        Mark,
        I believe it is the NR as well, as they seem to me to present the 
attitude that they are the be all to end all, and somehow not being NR 
implies that you are incompetent and can't adequately provide care. I have a 
big problem with this. It's just 
        like the AHA with ACLS, PALS etc. having the initials magically makes 
you better. Go figure.
 
 
 MD> general, but the attitude of NR and non-NR folks.
 MD> I'm an NREMT-B and I have a whole 3 months experience.  If you think 
 MD> for one minute that I would stop (even if it was possible - which it 
 MD> most certainly is NOT) and take command of a scene because I have a 
 MD> "higher level of training" (Which is questionable depending on the 
 MD> individual) You're insane.
 MD> What the other party MAY HAVE BEEN referring to is the responsibility 
 
 MD> to the pt and avoiding abandonment.  If I was to stop for an accident,
        For abandonment to be happen you have to start to provide care then 
you boogie leaving the pt. in the care of say, rubberneckers, an untrained 
albeit well meaning bystander. If you don't even stop you can't be sued for 
abandonment, etc. Now, if 
        your car has a star of life or some other identifying marker on it 
you CAN be as that implies that you are an EMT and therefore have a duty to 
act. 
 
 
 MD> it is my understanding that I can only turn responsibility over to 
 MD> someone who has my level of training or higher.  Consequently if the
 MD> FD  arrives and they are trained as first responders (hey, I live in
 MD> the  sticks - mostly volunteer and not much formal training for FD), I
 MD> could  not leave the scene until EMS or another EMT arrived.  In that 
 MD> particular case, It would be wrong of me to leave even if it meant
 MD> that  I had to leave my vehicle at the scene and go with the PT if the
 MD> FD had  to transport.  If, however, the FD came on scene and one of
 MD> them was an  EMT, that would be that.  I would offer my help and get
 MD> the heck out of  the way if it was not needed.
 MD> The algorythms that NR uses are good; however, you must avoid having 
 MD> tunnel vision when using them, or any other form of pt/scene
 MD> assessment. 
 MD> If folks would put the pt first (Ain't that why we are here to begin 
 MD> with?!), and leave the attitudes and GOD modes at home, EMS would be a
        I hope you didn't construe that I felt I was better than the NR 
folks, just that such an exam DOES NOT weed out gandies and street squirrels!
 
 MD> lot more like EMS is supposed to be.  Sometimes it is almost
 MD> sickening. 
 MD> Just my humble, niave, idealistic opinion.........
        Understand here that I don't want to destroy your idealism. Rather I 
would temper it with just a bit of "lifesaving" cynicism, and get you to 
question alot of what you were taught in school regarding such matters (NR, 
etc.) and form your own  
        opinions abut them, as EMS instructors tend to infect students with 
notions of our infallibility, that organizations like the NR, AHA are the 
answer and are the arbiters of truth in EMS. These ideas are simply not true 
and IMHO extremely dangerous
        as the groups are becoming very strong politically and I feel 
represent a threat to everyone's well being. All thuis talk about being 
certified this or that merely creates more hoops for us to jump through and 
generally makes life difficult. In 
        Missouri, EMS people are the only group licensed by the state who 
have to take a test to relicense every three years.(although now it can be 
done through CEUs and assurance by your medical director that you are 
competent, which will probably be 
        "pencil-whippery") I find it very insulting that they feel it 
necessary to question my abilities every three years! Sorry dude, this area 
really pisses me off and I can get quite verbose and tend to pontificate alot 
regarding the state EMS folks.
        My basic rules of EMS... Everything you learn in school is wrong. 
People will die and you can't do squat about it. People WILL live because you 
DID DO something about it!
        Enjoy it, don't take yourself too seriously, and remember, it's OK to 
cry..
        Mark
 MD> Mark
 MD> 
 MD> -!- KBBS vZ.20p (#ARI-00088)
 MD>  ! Origin: *MARX BBS* DEFUNIAK SPRINGS, FL * 904-892-4304 *(1:3674/3)
... "Bother" said Pooh, as he defibrillated in a water puddle!
---
---------------