Hola Alex  :)

Saturday November 23 2002 01:00, Alex Shakhaylo decˇa a Felipe T. Dorado:

 FD>> But I very much doubt things are the way you put it. It would be
 FD>> absurd. Change of policy has to be done according to policy. No other
 FD>> way is acceptable.

 AS> Well, I agree that legitimate way is mostly preffered one. But the will
 AS> of the majority is beyond any legitimation. I can remind you about at
 AS> least two cases when majority acted not according to current law and
 AS> succeeded. The first case is fn_sysop and the second is USSR disinteg-
 AS> ration. Both cases suited majority that's why they have become lagitimate
 AS> after success.

I can assure you I was very much aware of either of them when I wrote that
to you. Whatever can be done before resorting to brute force is better for
everyone involved. So, try first the legitimate way. If and when that
fails, repeatedly, then and only then could force become justifiable.
We are just too many people involved to be able to find fast and aceptable
solutions for everybody and everything.

 AS> A winner is not under a judgement.

Not quite. "Wars are always necessary and inevitable until after ten
years later" ...   Don't remember the author, sorry.
They always are absurd looking back.

 AS>>> And we are the real majority of fidonet, you know.

 FD>> Mmmm. That sounds real bad, you know. Even taking into account that
 FD>> you are right.

 AS> I'm sorry. I have not meant to use dirty tricks.

:)   Glad to hear it. I'm sure you didn't.

 AS>>> I've posted proposal to our regional echo, but one voice of our
 AS>>> RC doesn't matter much according to current practice. And I don't
 AS>>> think that current practice is legitimate one. P4 says about
 AS>>> referenda, not about RCs voting.

 FD>> We are probably not reading the same doc :?

 AS> I've been mistaken. Now I see the policy is even worse than I thought
 AS> it was :(

There are basically two ways of looking at a bottle: it's half empty and
it's half full. Whichever point between the two you may happen to look at
policy, gosh, things can't be that bad, can they?  If they were, Fido would
not have grown so much in the past. How many Nodes have gone by without
even having to have rechecked policy in their Fido-lifetime?
Ok, let's change it, right?  Or, alternatively, propose a whole substitution.
But beware, a whole substitution will probably take years to draft since
the whole of Fidonet would have to agree to it ...  This "modest"
attempt has taken a full year to be agreed upon ...

There's still another way: storm the home of all *Cs and force them to agree! }};)
Sorry for the black humor. However exagerated I hope it illustrates the point.

And whatever replaces *Cs will be other *Cs ...

 FD>> Look, Alex, never mind whether current practice has it not to listen
 FD>> to your RC. His vote is what counts for the rest of us.

 AS> He will surely vote. No need to worry.

 FD>> Making sure he votes what the majority of SysOps in your region think
 FD>> is the best you can do to change things, and what is democratic.

 AS> I have a great respect for our RC, I'm sure he will go this way.

Great.

 FD>> If he doesn't then throw him to the lions and get one that will
 FD>> comply __never mind policy__. And, you can post the results of
 FD>> whatever poll you carry out so the rest of us know what the opinion
 FD>> of the majority is. Before, during or after the Initiation. I'm sure
 FD>> we'll be most happy to hear the majority's voice and support it.

 AS> This is my true intention. As a rule I don't act 'against something',
 AS> but 'for something'. Unfortunately sometimes it comes to controversy.

It certainly is difficult for some people to distinguish between the two.

 FD>> I think understand your opinions and feelings and share most of
 FD>> them.
 FD>> That is why I recommend the above.

 FD>> But taking out a bolt with a hammer renders the nut useless.

 AS> (sign) never during my fidolife I had so mixed feelings :(

:)    You are not alone   :)


Now,
Why is it that so many SysOps there feel so left out?
Do you all really feel oppressed by the *C structure and current policy?
What percentage of SysOps there can read English fluently?
What have they tried before embarking on a proyect for a new P5?
How is it progressing, can we have a glimpse, do they need any help?

A mail network is for communicating, right?   Ok, let's use it.

Hasta luego, Alex.

Felipe  :)

--- Fastecho 1.45/GED/Fd 2.12