Hi, Felipe!

25 Nov 02 22:59, Felipe T. Dorado said to Alex Shakhaylo:

 FD>>> brute force is better for everyone involved. So, try first the
 FD>>> legitimate way.

 AS>> But it was said here that for 13 years legitimate attempts
 AS>> failed. How many attemps should fail to change your mind ?

 FD> ;)  A few in which I've been involved  };)

Oh. This changes everything ! :-)

 FD> The point is that I was not a Node when any of the preceeding ones
 FD> "failed", or so I've been told. So I was not even aware of them nor
 FD> could I be involved. Anyway, actual *Cs are not the same ones as
 FD> before are they?  I for one ;)

Sure. The water in the river never can be the same, but it is still
the same river :-)

 AS>> the only question that I'm going to remain is: "whether you think
 AS>> the policy can be changed by networkwide referenda ?"

 AS>> I think that in all the cases we will benefit.

 FD> I figured you were not as radical as you seemed at first ;)
 FD> Congratulations on your decission :)

I'm not very radical, just a bit more than Tory 

 AS>> Well. But take in account that at times when fido was growing the
 AS>> people were carried by the process itself and by technical
 AS>> problems rather.

 FD> Yeap. Some day someone will look at why a network grew practically out
 FD> of nothing, developed and then shrunk ... Too many things to take into
 FD> account there.

Some things can be taken in account right now. Fidonet should be
more open to the new technologies and it should be more democratic.
I saw nobody to object these statements.

 AS>> Now
 AS>> most of the technical problems are solved, people are looking
 AS>> around and more concernded with "political" aspect. I wanna say
 AS>> that in older times policy was less significant and more
 AS>> corresponding to the moment.

 FD> I don't think it is politics. Double or triple the number of users of
 FD> BBSs and Fidomail and most of the "political" aspects will be
 FD> forgotten  ;) It's the lack of users that makes us look at one another
 FD> instead of at new users  ;)

Isn't it the same I have said ? :-)

 FD>>> And whatever replaces *Cs will be other *Cs ...

 AS>> I always said the *Cs are the main pain of the fidonet :-)

 FD> They can become, yes.

No, they are ! As long as according to the current policy they are
responsible for everything, they are responsible for the shrinking
of the fidonet and for the policy hadn't been changed ! :-)

Hm .. I wanted to say that it was a joke, but then realized it was
completely valid statement. Well, there is not much sence now in
blaming anybody, we need to move forward.

 FD> The same way anybody can become a "boss" instead
 FD> of a list clerk or coordinator of something. But Inet can also be
 FD> considered the main pain ...  Or the users who were in Fido because it
 FD> was a new thing since they left when Fido wasn't at the top of the
 FD> wave ...

Yes. This is completely true. And you've forgotten to note the technical
complexity of the FTN system managing.  Windows-PnP-one-touch technology
steals a lot of potential users and sysops.

 AS>> No, I don't mean we should get rid of *Cs, but they should be
 AS>> destined to the technical issues only. As for political issues
 AS>> they should be left to sysops and polls.

 FD> We agree on that. Though I see little political matters that a *C can
 FD> get into unless he likes playing those games. Are SysOps concerned
 FD> enough to analyse the various aspects involved?  I'm afraid not
 FD> really. If they were they would be here in this echo voicing their
 FD> opinions. I'm concerned, I asked and here I am. So are you.

I'm not *C and have never been the one :-)

 AS>> Most sysops in my region are indifferent to the current
 AS>> amendment. Now I'm trying to wake them up, but it is not that
 AS>> simple a task :-)

 FD> Ha!  Welcome aboard!  ;)   As I said above, are they really concerned
 FD> about Fido?  Is caring about Fido being political? ...

But at the same time they spend a lot of time flaming about fidonet
policy, blaming coordinators, and fighting between themselves about
what is good and what is bad for the fidonet :-)

 FD>>> :)    You are not alone   :)

 AS>> Great to hear :-)

 FD> Want a beer.rar?  ;)

Prosit ! :-)

Bye, Sinc, Alex

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