CB>Do we get quality graduates? No--testing does not produce 
CB>quality, testing only finds defects.
 RM> You've been repeating this mantra for some time now, and 
 RM> with all due respect to Mr. Deming, I don't think that his 
 RM> theories on manufacturing necessarily carry over to 
 RM> education.  Specifically, I find it hard to accept that
 RM> having exit exams wouldn't improve the quality of our
 RM> graduates.  If nothing else, it would encourage students to
Actually, his theories do carry over--I presume that his ideas about testing 
bother you.
Actually, the type of test that you mention, (an exit test), might serve to 
motivate some-possibly raising their score, for others who are quite capable, 
it might decrease their score due to fear, etc.. I think that the quality of 
education a student receives would not increase at all--this is different 
from the quality of graduates that you speak about.  You might find graduate 
quality---but where do you set the test level?
One graduate a year, two, more??? Where do you set the level, (or the basket 
for Matt)?
 RM> grades in lesser courses.  Does Mr. Deming take into account
 RM> that in education, the product interacts with the process
 RM> and can be influenced in its (the product's) actions?  When
 RM> making a tv, this isn't a factor ....
Yes, he does, but he also states that the student also is a customer and in 
all businesses where people are delt with, high quality can be achieved.  
Doesn't a doctor have the same problem with influence, a lawyer?  
 
Are you sure that the testing that is done in your state increases the 
quality of graduates?  Test scores in several different national tests have 
been rising slowly over the past 10-15 years. Maybe the scores are due to 
some other factor.
--- Maximus 2.02
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