-=> Quoting John Sampson to Jean Halverson <=-
 -=> Quoting John Sampson to Jean Halverson <=-
 
 JH> I snipped alot---
 
 JS> What Roland was addressing was the ILLEGAL ALIEN problem. He is no
 JS> from  what I've read, against LEGAL immigration. Or are you sugges
 JS> that it's  justifiable for aliens to enter and remain in this coun
 JS> in violation of  the law?
 
 JH> No, what I'm saying is that quotas placed on legal immigration are unj
 JH> due to racism. And I disagree with the common statement that _all_ Mex
 JH> are leeches on our society, whether legal or illegal. I am saying that
 JH> social welfare program that we have is a contributing factor in allowi
 JH> people who cannot work into the country. It wasn't that way before wel
 JH> and if we got rid of welfare, alot of the problem people would not wan
 JH> to come here.
 JH> Having grown up in a family that is proud of its' racism I find myself
 JH> rather sickened by it. 
 JS> Immigration Law 201 (Advanced Course)
 JS> There are two types of immigrant visas, generally speaking. 
 JS> A. Non preference categories which include spouses and minor children
 JS> of  U.S. citizens, as well as parents of U.S. citizens. These visas are
 JS> immediately (technically speaking, they still have to be processed) 
 JS> available and not subject to numerical limitations.
 JS> B. Preference categories such as spouses and children of Legally
 JS> Admitted  Permanent Residents (LAPRs). These ARE subject to the
 JS> numerical limitations  set by Congress.
 JS> Limitations are set by Congress and are equally aportioned between ALL
 JS> countries with no consideration of race, religion, etc.  So Mexico has
 JS> the  same number of preference category visas each year as does
 JS> England. 
 
 That is just the problem. Each country should not carry its own quota. There
 should be an overall quota. Do you honestly believe that x  amount of people 
 will _ever_ immigrate fromSweden or Norway? Make those set apart  places 
 available to those who desire to come. 
 
 JS> Where the problem arises is when the numbers of applicants far exceed
 JS> the  limitations and the numbers become backlogged so that someone
 JS> applying  today will not see their visa number come up for ten years or
 JS> so.  
 JS> There are SOME categories, such as brothers and sisters of U.S.
 JS> Citizens,  relating to  SOME countries that are no longer available
 JS> because the  backlog is so large that a visa for someone applying today
 JS> will not become  available during their lifetime. 
  
 That's what the quota system does. It unfairly tips the scales toward those 
 who  don't desire to  come here at all.
 
 
 JS> I'll take it one step further than Roland and will assuredly incur
 JS> your  ire. I believe that the Federation of Immigration Reform's (
 JS> policy  that we should have a five year moratorium on LEGAL immigr
 JS> is the  correct course to take. We have been overwhelmed for many
 JS> years.  Application backlogs exist to the point where someone who
 JS> applies to become  a naturalized citizen in Denver, Colorado has t
 JS> wait 23 months before  their interview. And it's much worse in the
 JS> major cities such as New York,  Los Angeles, etc. 
 
 JS> We simply cannot absorb the record numbers of people who are comin
 JS> this  country, both legally AND illegally. If you have a solution 
 JS> this  problem, I'd love to hear it. But rest assured that I along 
 JS> my  co-workers have looked at every possible solution. We just sim
 JS> cannot  continue at the pace we are currently experiencing. 
 
 JH> Why can we not allow the numbers of immigrants into this country that
 JH> would come? We surely are not experiencing any of the problems that 
 JH> overcrowding is supposed to bring? 
 JS> Look at cities like L.A., N.Y., Miami, El Paso, Chicago, etc. that
 JS> have  huge amounts of immigrant influx. They cannot cope with their 
 JS> infrastructure to absorb all these people. Social services, like
 JS> Police,  Fire, Medical, Sanitation, Housing, Education, etc. cannot
 JS> handle the load.  
 
 Having lived in the wonderfully  dense city of San Diego, Ca I can honestly
 say to you that it is not immigrant influx that causes the problems you 
 listed. It is instead a combination of improper city planning, the changing
 of single  family zoning to multifamily zoning, preference  given to the 
 maintanance of wealthy suburban streets instead of the poorer sections,
 the refusal to restrict heavy truck traffic in urban areas, slum lords,
 quicker police response times to suburban areas, low teacher wages in high
 risk schools. We lived 25  minutes from real downtown in an  area that was
 builtfor specifically one family residences. With  the infamous TWA plane 
 crash the local property owners lobbied for and got a change in zoning  to
 multifamily zoning. And now an area with  a street structure that was
 built for a  moderate amount of traffic has to sustain  at least 12 
 times what was originally there because the  property owners, instead of 
 rebuilding their single family residences chose to  build apartment 
 buildings. We lived there for one  year and the overcrowding was awful.
 JS> If we had an open border policy, how many folks from China do you
 JS> think  would come here? From Mexico? From other countries? Do you think
 JS> that most  of China would move here? I"m not racist, but the sheer
 JS> numbers would  overrun our abilities to absorb all the people that
 JS> would come here. 
 
 And why do you have a problem with non European immigration? Could you live 
 with an overall quota or  do  you favor  the country  by country quota?
 Yeah  like the entire nation of Luxembourg could immigrate in what 2 years?
 
 JS> Lastly, we, like every other nation on this planet, have a sovreign
 JS> right  to control our borders and to have an orderly system of
 JS> immigration. Just  because some poet wrote "Give me your tired, your
 JS> poor, your huddled masses  yearning to breathe free", does NOT mean we
 JS> must surrender that right.  
 
 Yes but still the problem lies with the quota system.  I could live with a
 blanket quota. That  way those who wanted to  _could  conceivably come here.
 JS> Yes, we ARE a nation of immigrants. LEGAL immigrants. We are a nation
 JS> of  laws FIRST and foremost. Canada is also a nation of immigrants.
 JS> They have  their own problems with immigration. But I don't hear anyone
 JS> saying that  Canada must open its borders because they are a nation of
 JS> immigrants like  the U.S.
 It is quite an irony that our "lawful" nations' first act was to break the 
 laws and contracts that it had been under...I would under no means be 
 insisting that this is a nation of lawful immigrants. We are not. Conquerors 
 are nothing but law breaking murderers in the eyes of God. This is not  a  
 valid argument. The matter is of morality and mercy in application of laws.
 JS> What I am tired of is being told that the United States is "different"
 JS> than  the rest of the world. The reason why we're "different" is
 JS> because we have  the wealth that others want. It's a simple matter of
 JS> "king of the hill" and  "haves" vs. "have nots". 
 JS> The balance of payments is against us. Let me illustrate what I mean. 
 JS> Assume for a moment there are 5 million illegal aliens in the United 
 JS> States. That is the "official" INS ESTIMATE. Assume that each one
 JS> sends  home to their country $100 a month to family there. That is $500
 JS> million  that leaves this economy each and every month, never to be
 JS> spent here or  reinvested here. That's 6 BILLION with a "B" a year that
 JS> is "sucked out of"  this country. 
 Yeah, but those same immigrants add much in the way of real work.
 
 JS> That does NOT count for those aliens who are here LEGALLY. Triple that
 JS> figure from above and you get an idea of how much money is being
 JS> funneled  out of this country never being invested or used to support
 JS> OUR economy.  
 JS> When Prop 187 was being hotly debated in California, illegal alien
 JS> children  and teenagers were marching in the streets of East L.A.
 JS> carrying Mexican  flags claiming that they had a RIGHT to be here
 JS> because, after all, America  was a "free" country. When asked by a
 JS> reporter what they thought being a  "free" country meant, several
 JS> students replied that things here didn't cost  anything and that things
 JS> here were free.  
 
 JS> We've had a recurrence of diseases that thirty and forty years ago we 
 JS> hardly ever saw. Tuberculosis and Hepatitis are on the steady rise.
 JS> Why?  Because many of the immigrants coming to this country come from
 
 Why? because of the overuse of antibiotics thereby removing the bulk of
 less resistant and less virulent strains leaving roomfor the more resistant 
 strains of deadly bacteria.
 Incidentally, tuberculosis is on the  rise due to the rising numbers of HIV
 infected individuals. 
 JS> areas where  health care is primitive. We are therefore importing
 JS> diseases in this  country that we had beaten years ago. A Federal
 JS> District Court judge in NYC  ordered the INS to allow 120+ Haitians
 JS> being held in Guantanemo Bay, to  enter the United States despite the
 JS> fact that every one of them tested  POSITIVE for HIV. 
 Where did you read this? I read that Clinton sent them back.
 JS> If you believe those "immigrants" or "refugees", have been celibate
 JS> since  they've come here, or have practiced "safe sex", better think
 JS> again.  Consequently, I shudder to think how many people in this
 JS> country have been  infected by these people simply because a judge
 JS> wanted to make a  "political" statement and used the power of the bench
 JS> to practice social  activism or soical engineering. 
 JS> Construction jobs that used to pay $15 to $20 an hour in the "era of 
 JS> greed", the 80s, now pay $9 to $12 an hour despite inflation. Why?
 JS> Because  it has become a prime job for illegal aliens. Most, if not
 
 True, illegal aliens are willing to work for much less. But  in our 
 experience it is the incredibly wealthy  who are guilty of refusing to pay
 decent wages to the workers they hire. This is more a problem that could be
 solved by trade guilds. There are always lawful citizens who underbid 
 contracts thereby reducing the wages of all workers in that field. My
 husband has been a tile setter for 15 years and the problems that he has 
 seen have ALL been caused by unscrupulous contractors and stubborn, 
 tightfisted homeowners. Mexican illegals have just not been the problem.
 JS> all, of these  aliens are illiterate and cannot perform simple
 JS> arithmetic. Creates all  sorts of problems for builders when things are
 JS> even, or cut properly, or  measured right. 
 
 My husband has set tile in four states. American citizens are just as 
 guilty of being unable to follow plans. American workmanship is disgusting.
 JS> The reality is that we cannot absorb the world's population in the
 JS> United  States. But that's precisely what would happen if we adopted
 JS> your belief  that we can simply have open borders.
 JS> I haven't even begun to discuss those aliens who come here and commit 
 JS> crimes.
 I thought I read here that the entire worlds population would fit in  the
 state  of Texas??
 I thoroughly understand the benefits of limits, but it should be a system
 of first come first served. That way maybe we could be a country who gives
 refuge to those women in China who would otherwise have to undergo a forced
 abortion. It grieves me when I read of those who are  turned away by the
 quotas, when there are places that other countries never use.
 Jean Halverson
 
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