BL> However, my point is correct: democracy *can* be quite large as long
BL> as the people are homogenous. In fact, a pure democracy would have to
BL> be fairly large to work. Small groups go towards anarchy, communism
BL> or totalitarianism. Democracy takes too much time in a small group.

KR> it works as long as everybody accepts the results, and cooperate.

Nope, it works when we have enough sense not to try ramming the
ideas of a majority down the throats of a very significant minority.

KR> i think that the current gun debate is an excellent
KR> example of why it wont work here and now.

BL> The gun-business will work because cooperation is forced in the end:
BL> the guns will be finally confiscated and the recalcitrants gaoled.

Pigs arse the will be, you watch. We already tried it
with handguns and didnt get anything like that result.

BL> The Vietnam War was a better example: in the end the majority came
BL> around to accept the minority view. Democracy allows discussion.

Or attitudes change over time. They do in the NON democracys too Bob.

BL> After you accused me of confusing democracy and capitalism,
BL> I think you are confusing Democracy and Law. Democracy
BL> merely means that laws are passed by the majority...

Nope, thats an utterly naive and simplistic idea of what democracy is about.
A decent one DOESNT allow the majority to decide to gas the jews etc.

BL> bad laws exist in all systems.

Thats mangling the story too. The problem with the worst of the non
democracys is NOT that they have laws that endorse death squads, they
just do that stuff OUTSIDE the law and there is no possibility of redress.

BL> Society depends on people accepting Law, whether the
BL> society is totalitarian, democratic or even anarchic.

Nope, nothing remotely like that in fact. Our society works fine
even when its dead bloody obvious that many must choose to bare
their arse at great swags of the law, most obviously on soft drugs.

BL> Totalitarian law is imposed, democratic law
BL> is debated and finally passed by a majority,

More utterly simplist naivete. Most of the time the totalitarian
regimes dont even bother changing the law. Idi Ami didnt bother,

BL> and anarchic law is basic...

Poor old Bob.

BL> but all laws are enforced or the society falls apart.

Oh yeah ? Our society doesnt fall apart because silly laws on
blasphemy and using norty words arent enforced. Totalitarian regimes
dont implode because they dont enforce the laws effectively enough.

KR> order is always imposed in any sort of organised society,
KR> the only one where no order is imposed is anarchy.

BL> Anarchy must have order or it falls apart too.

Poor old Bob, hasnt actually got a CLUE what anarchy is actually about.

BL> Anarchy is a true contender everyone ignores,

Pigs arse it is, Bobs having yet another massive brain fart.
Or indulging in more pathetically senile coat trailing.

BL> but in fact Unions are mostly anarchic;

Pigs arse they are.

BL> Fido is anarchic...

Pigs arse it is.

BL> even something like a football team.

Poor old Bob.

BL> An anarchy allows anyone to do anything they want, but it relies on
BL> the overall goal to restrict what they can want, and still get a result.

Soorree, thats nothing like real anarchy.

BL> For instance, anarchy on the road would work.

Sure it would Bob.

BL> Everyone would have to drive on the left (or right).

Soorree, that aint anything like anarchy.

BL> Everyone would have to stop after accidents

Soorree, that aint anything like anarchy.

BL> (or carry a gun to prevent the bastard driving off),
BL> but speed limits and such are not inherent to the goal.

Poor old Bob.

BL> There are rules inherent in everything we do that involves
BL> other people. Anarchy is not *no* rules, it is no extra rules.

KR> i'd say that democracy is **only** possible in small groups, it
KR> has only been successful in small groups of like minded souls.

BL> Democracy can't work in small groups...

Corse it does, most obviously small clubs/hobby groups etc.

BL> look at a Body Corporate; the injustices imposed
BL> by Little Hitlers are infamous: a determined person
BL> does not like cats, so no one is allowed cats.

Says nothing useful about whether SOME work tho Bob.

BL> What I am saying is that democracy is only successful with
BL> homogeneity (small dissent) but this is the usual case.

Poor old Bob. Radically confusing homogeneity with dissent.

BL> The size of the group is just a matter of odds. A small group will
BL> throw up only one leader, a large group with throw up many and give
BL> the rest a choice. Most of us are happy to go along with the rest.

Poor old Bob.

BL> But once the representatives are elected democratically,
BL> the council of representatives is basically anarchic.

Poor old Bob.

BL> This is why political Parties we invented, to
BL> form basically two groups and prevent true anarchic
BL> representation. The Party system is what destroys Democracy.

Poor old Bob.

KR> maximising freedom can only lead to anarchy, then the freedom

(Continued to next message)
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