HI James,

On Thu 2039-Mar-31 23:20, James Bradley (1:342/77) wrote to Richard Webb:



 RW> Btw  it's funny how many young drummer come in and when I
 RW> ask them to show me an example of the kind of drum sound
 RW> that would come as close as could be to musical orgasm for
 RW> them if it were to be heard on their recording they play
 RW> that band for me.  THen they look at me strange when I
 RW> don't close mic the kit, or even funnier when I tell 'em
 RW> what we
 RW> need is a big room to record their drums in.    I explain
 RW> to them that you don't put your ear right up to a drum to
 RW> listen to it, which is essentially what you're doing with a
 RW> close mike.  The Bonham studio sound was big rooms, only
 RW> two or three microphones.

JB> Yup... Can't capture *that* in an iso-booth. Even when the old
JB> codger was  playing quiet, he was LOUD.

YEah I know, big kick drum, both heads on the toms too iirc. A friend of
mine who was a big Bonzo buff played a 6 piece
Rogers, wood shells, pre-cbs.  I used to make studio
engineers cry when I'd use him when I was "briefcase
engineering" projects at their facilities and would use him
as my drummer for the date if I was producing also.  I'd
insist I didn't want the studio's kit, I wanted to set up
his Rogers.  They'd moan and make unhappy noises, but I
would often explain that I recorded his kit so often that it was already
optimized for the studio, just tweak the tuning
and set him down, play the track.  I loved recording that
kit.  PUt a stereo pair of Neumann 105's on the overhead, an EV re-20 on
the kick drum, an sm-57 on the snare, sort of
between snare and high hats, and we were ready to rock 'n
roll.
IN the room I used most often for him I knew just where I
wanted to set him up too.  That studio had a beautiful drum
room, more than the usual iso booth.  GOod sight lines
through glass to the big room containing the rest of the
musos, and good sight lines to the control room too.
Then the engineer makes it suck to the maximum by taking out his Ludwigs
and putting in those sImmons drum pad things
with the sImmons drum brain, which I never thought sounded
that good.
That dates these projects I'm referring to for you as well
I'm sure.



 RW> Yeah I know, bass players can do that easily, or other
 RW> rhythm section elements.  USually because they're not
 RW> paying close enough attention to the drums, or because
 RW> they're
 RW> trying to push the tempo for other reasons, i.e.
 RW> uncomfortable singing at that tempo or similar.  That's one
 RW> thing all the midi work did for me, it improved my sense of
 RW> when I was trying to push or pull the tempo.

JB> What an eyeopener when I first tried to play along to my drum box.
JB> Sitting  "in the pocket" is the sign of a good player, but if one
JB> other member of  the rhythm section tries to drag that pocket
JB> further, often with the best  of intentions - "That drummer can't
JB> keep time." If the person holding the  sticks notices the singer
JB> struggling with the tempo, a great player can  adjust to take one
JB> for the team. "That drummer can't keep time." even if  it *was* the
JB> keyboardist that initiated the tempo shift.  

Yeah I know, i"ve seen that often, a musician has difficulty playing
the part at tempo, so he pushes or pulls the beat.
IF I found myself doing that I'd just give more attention to rehearsing that piece.

 RW> YEp, the tension adjustment for the snares, the lugs on the
 RW> top heads, lugs on the bottom heads.

JB> I have a marching snare here that I can adjust each snare wire 
JB> tension independently from each other. Each side of the basket is
JB> height  adjustable also. It's the second such arrangement I've had
JB> in my stable,  but I sold the first out of stupidity. That old unit
JB> was a 'snap' to  adjust.  It took forever to get just
JB> right, but my, did it sing! 

OH yeah, that would be nice.  For when you don't have
capability that's when htat moleskin's handy .

 RW> You'd be surprised in my bar band days though how many
 RW> times I'd go to a gig to find a pickup drummer who didn't
 RW> have a
 RW> drum key or common hand tool.s  A drum key, common hand
 RW> tools, and wd40 for kick drum pedals was part of my gotta
 RW> have it toolkit for gigging.

JB> WD40 didn't *exist* in my bar-daze! Still, a box of fluids, a box of
JB> tools,  and a box of expendable were always on my list. Inside one
JB> of those boxes  was always a box of band-aids, mole-skin and
JB> what-nots. Besides sticks and  skins, drumming is expensive! If you
JB> haven't worked for a while, physically  you might not make it
JB> through a night.

That's for sure.  Back before wd40 when working I wasn't as
altruistic, if the folks didn't have what they needed to
handle that squeaky kick drum pedal it was no problem, as
often we weren't placing mikes on drums in those days.
Thankfully, the arrival of wd40 coincided with folks wanting to close mike
drums for live engagements.
Always a pet peeve of mine, put all those mikes on a kit and then only use
the kick mike a little bit.

 RW> Yeah I know, think about those guys carrying those cp-80
 RW> Yamaha "electric grand" pianos with the pickups. 88 keys.
 RW> AT least they didn't have the unisons in the middle and
 RW> upper RW> regions.

JB> "Unisons"????

Unisons:  Multiple strings sounding same note.  Look inside
a regular piano, from the middle to the top you'll see 2-3
strings per each note.  IF three per note (often the mids
and uppers) you use a temperament strip, and/or rubber
wedges to mute the two outside (unisons) strings, tune the
middle one with the wrench, then check things out with
chords.  Then you go back through tuning the unisons, mute
one with a rubber wedge, tune it to the center string,
unmute the one you muted, mute the one you just tuned and
tune it.
IF you fail to get the unisons in tune get 'em close, and
say you're playing old ragtime piano, and just stick
thumbtacks in the hammers  Smartest entertainers of our days! As mentioned, who needs to carry
 JB> a tune  these days or even annunciate the "lyrics"? I've hated on
 JB> the current state  of "popular" music for years, but George Clinton
 JB> said it best. In a mumble,  "Whatever you say - and we tried - Rap
 JB> music brought blacks and whites  together for better or worse."

 RW> YEah I know, I see as many suburban white kids digging that
 RW> stuff as black kids.  I just shake my head.  That rap album
 RW> I did was for a suburban white kid.  .

JB> A neighbour and I have been working on a "suburban white kid" for
JB> her  tastes in tunes. What're you gonna do, eh?  A few Holloweens
JB> ago, I was  doling out the treats to a few late stragglers when a
JB> car drove by thumpin'  and bumpin' so loud I could hear something in
JB> the trunk rattling. I asked  the girls what it must sound like
JB> *inside* that vehicle if it sounds so bad  from here. 

YEah bet they couldn't answer you.  I dont' hear nearly as
much of that living on a dead end street in a small town
.

 JB> Now, Shirley's no Patsy Kline but she  has plenty to offer. Had it
 JB> not been for those boys that discovered her, we  would likely never
 JB> know her name but, I'd still love to hear her do a  duet with The
 JB> Holly Crow Trio.

 RW> I always thought the same, I'd like to hear her voice
 RW> without all that.  But then you have to remember that Butch
 RW> Vigg is heavily into that stuff.  That was sort of the
 RW> effect this alternative band I mentioned was going for.

JB> I suppose the experiment that was Garbage worked and was valid as
JB> art, but  I still don't hang it on my wall either. I just wonder if
JB> they were an instrumental group how well the music would hold up.
JB> Different strokes, I  suppose....

Yeah I don't know if it would hold up as instrumental music. I recorded
another "alternative" band though back in those
days that did hold up as instrumental music quite well.
They didn't totally wreck the voice with processing though.
They just insisted on doing the mix with the vocals buried
too far in all the layers of stuff which disappointed me,
but it's their stuff.
tHis might be getting big for distro, so funny story in next msg.

Regards,
           Richard
--- timEd 1.10.y2k+