From: Robert Medaris              Base   : Scanner Radios- Equip. & Frequ
To  : Scott Hoffman               Refer #: None                           
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NSA monitoring WHAT!?? What kind of equipment are they maintaining other
than illegal privacy intruding equipment?
They are an intelligence agency, and thats their job :-)
Besides, a large portion of the listening stations throughout the
world are really aimed at intercepting foreign military communications.
It really does depend upon the region of the world though. Some areas, the
NSA focuses on military interception, in others they target terrorist
communications interception, in others they target known drug lords, etc..
Then of course listening in on politicians is the norm also. But so long as
their not american citizens, its not really our problem.
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Rob> The technology for mass use of a single frequency permitting many
Rob> thousands of simultaneous users without any interference to each other
Rob> is over twenty year old. It is not unlike the technology used to
Rob> multiplex information over a single telephone wire while maintaing
Rob> the integrety of individual transmisions.
Not sure how we got into discussing RF technology,  but while were on
the subject, CDMA (Code Division Multiplexed Access) is fast becoming
the defacto standard of Cellular companies nowadays. 
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Rob> The real reason for the FCC, and the various alphabet soup "spook"
Rob> agencies want to monitor the spectrum, has nothing to do with spectrum
Rob> integrety, it has only to do with:  "Content of Communications"
Rob> There is little difference in the monitoring of radio transmissions by
Rob> the FCC and the NSA, than the illegal activities of the various other
Rob> alphabet soup government policing agencies who use their assumed powers
Rob> to track guns, and their owners.
Well, they do have a legitimate important job to do... That is, the FCC
does have to track down alot of interferece and transmissions from
radio airwave "pirates". The NSA on the other hand is a different story.
I live by a few rules with respect to privacy.  One has to realize that
theirs a difference between,  What their allowed to do by law, what they
do anyway in spite of the law, and what they have the capabilities to do,
or have done in the past.
I ceartainly dont think theirs any "mass conspiracy" to monitor the domestic
radio spectrum in the United States, with the intent of taking random
luck shots at overhearing criminals.  I do think that they do such things
on occasion (although one might question just how much monitoring is
tolerable to be considered not much of a problem).  I mean the FCC has
tens/hundreds of millions of dollars worth of radio reception equipment, and
it would likewise be not only silly and naive to believe that they dont use
that equipment with surreptitious intent. Not to mention some would
consider it a big waste of taxpayer dollars for all that equipment not to
be put to some use.
Also we must remember that if we, citizens,  wantto have the right to
listen in.. then so should the government because they should be bound
by the same laws. I personally am an advocate of every single frequency
being the public domain of all earths citizens and everyone should have
the right to listen to it, including the government so long as its in the
course of legitimate duty.
Alot of people argue with me on the point that if people should be allowed
to listen to anything, then so should the government. I find that argument
to be flawed and inncaurate because its not the governments job to do
anything they want. They have to do what the agency was chartered to do
(and that definately doesnt include randomly monitoring the citizens of
this country). Its the people who decide what the government can do, and
I dont think the majority would want billions of hard earned tax dollars
being spent on targeting the very citizens who payed the taxes so the govt
can do such things.
I personally feel the government (specifically law enforcement agencies)
should be able to monitor any frequency they want (including cordless and
cellular) without any warrant whatsoever because the airwaves are public
and hence as long as the government is engaged in a LEGITIMATE investigation
they shouldnt need a warrant to intercept cell calls, anymore than they
should need to get a warrant where the agent heard someone 'vocally' make
reference to a criminal act.
The NSA and CIA on the other hand, I view in a totally different light.
They are intelligence agencies, and their purpose is to collect intelligence
through most any means possible short of murder (which of course the CIA
has had part in anyway [in collaboration with foreign govts..]).  I have
absolutely no problem with any intelligence agency monitoring anything so
long as it is outside the demoestic United States of America.  I dont
really care about the citizens of other countries, they have to worry about
themselves.  Intelligence is a dirty game, always has been and its not
supposed to be ethical.  The reason I extend the intelligence agencies
my trust is because I view them as fundementally different than
law enforcement agencies who I despise greatly. Law enforcement agencies
are designed to persecute american citizens, thats their job, and if they
use illegal evidence, perjured evidence or some other unconstitutional means
to convict someone, I have a big problem with that.. But the intelligence
agenices on the other hand, dont prosecute anyone (not unless they had it
over to the FBI) they basically just collect information which is harmless
enough.  I do have somewhat of a problem with "domestic" monitoring
operations that involve US Citizens, as once again, I dint think taxpayers
would appreciate footing the bill so the CIA can turn around and spy on
them and collect files (a la' 1960s collection of intelligence on anti-war
protestors).
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Rob> Anybody who wants their comunication to be private from snooping
Rob> neighbors, marauding phone phreaks, and the wife's private detective
Rob> she hired to catch you, can get equipment with a chip that utilizes the
Rob> DES encryption standard (government/NSA approved), meaning it will
Rob> prevent any body, (but the government), from listening in. The chips
are
Rob> cheap, they're $0.94 each in 1,000 quantity from the manufacturer.
The chips are cheap.. but the hardware equipment is unfortunately not.
The bottom of the line DES encryptors (with no features whatsoever)
costs $300 (retail price). These units are basically the analog type youd
use on transceivers (walkie-talkies) or on the PSTN.  Then the more
advanced DES units with features such as public key exchange protocols,
tempest protection, ignition-key code protection, etc..those units go for
$900 - $4,000, and the even more complicated triple-DES units or the
regular DES rack-mountable units which interface with T1 or computer
networks, go for about $10,000.
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Rob> beware, as the chip has been approved for by the NSA for open
Rob> uncontrolled distribution , it means they have an instant back door to
Rob> decode it without the necessity of getting your secret key.
Technically untrue. DES by itself is considered strong encryption
and thusly cannot be exported with going through the DoC.
If a company wants to sell the DES devices internationally they have
to go through one of a number of different process.  The first is simply
to get a license to export the devices. This is not an easy task in
cases of strong encryption.  The other method which makes things easier
is to have the NSA Rate the encryption unit as a TYPE 1, TYPE 2, TYPE 3
and TYPE 4.
DES cannot be FREELY distributed outside of the United States and Canada if
it is in the TYPE III mode (which is what most DES encryptors meant for the
domestic USA public are).  A DoC license can however be applied for to
ship the products internationally.
If the DES is TYPE 4 Rated, then it can be shipped internationally
with a State Department license.
Now, as for the "backdoor"... well, how does one attempt to argue the
point without dealing with specifics. In specific the manufacturer and
model number of encryption chip.  Most of the manufacturers of encryption
hardware dont install backdoors. I do not say none of them do, or would,
or could.. its just that they dont do that for obvious reasons. Those
reasons being security. Such a backdoor would be considered classified
information, and well, it wouldnt wise to entrust that type of knowledge
to the companies (particularly the smaller companies) because if that
were the case, such activities would have "leaked out" long ago.
This is aside from the fact that nowadays the NSA doesnt even need a
backdoor because they have the capabilities to decrypt DES by brute
force rather quickly, and any potential backdoors would just jeapordize
their valuable monitoring operations.
--- GEcho 1.00
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