TIP: Click on subject to list as thread! ANSI
echo: educator
to: MICHAEL MARTINEZ
from: CARL BOGARDUS
date: 1996-07-27 21:53:00
subject: Re: Ivan Illich

 MM> This has the effect of excluding people from the educational process.
 MM> Many people.  This would be ok, if the way people were educated by
 MM> their schools is fair.  But it's not, because people aren't taught
 MM> what they want to learn.  You are taught what other people want you to
 MM> learn.
 MM> Now, most people in our country learn all they need to know from
 MM> they're own lives, not from school.  This means that obligatory
 MM> schooling is not necessary.  If anything, it is mostly a method of
 MM> control.  You don't learn how to survive from school.  You learn it
 MM> from your family.  You don't learn what you need to know to live from
 MM> school, but from your family.
 MM> People learn their best when they are interested in something, when
 MM> they are excited by something, and when they are actively involved,
 MM> hands-on in the process.  If somebody wants to learn, they will go to
 MM> great lenghts on their own, to learn.  If they don't care about
 MM> something, forcing it into them isn't going to change that.
Hmmm, I had an seventh grade teacher that believed in this - those that 
wanted to learn sat at the front of the class, the others sat at the back and 
were allowed to talk-etc.. Result, none of us learned. If the others had been 
sent home, I am sure they would have been put to work (rural 
community-farms), so they were glad to sit and yak (as most pre-teens are 
glad to do). I know several religions that follow this thought  and at least 
one other author that agrees with it.
 
However, you better be sure that I would want someone other than a 
self-taught surgeon operating on me or my family. I think this echo went 
through this thread about a year ago-no?
 
I agree that everyone learns best when they are interested in the subject, 
but I also think people should be able to learn "stuff" that they aren't 
particulary interested in either.
 
Imagine this:
1. A student pilot that wants to learn to fly straight and level only
2. A driver's ed student that doesn't want to learn to parallel park
3. A student cook that doesn't clean up the dishes.
4. A student that wants to just "kick back" (as one of my seventh graders 
told me) I think his parents follow this book.
Kids always take the easy way out - often that means avoiding learning 
anything. There is no way a teacher could handle a class of kids wanting to 
learn 30 things at once. (if they wanted to learn anything at all)
--- Maximus 2.02
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