LEONA PAYNE spoke of Re: busy-ness to DAN TRIPLETT on 11-21-96
LP>Dan,
 
LP>I had kind of hoped the spelling monster thing would die, but since I
LP>see that it still hasn't & that you didn't get my point, I thought
LP>I'd just push it back at you.
I read your previous message to Paul.  I had hope you got it out of your 
system before responding to me.  :)  For what it's worth,  I agreed with 
you.  I have an 18 year old and I happen to believe he is responsible 
for getting his gpa below a 3.0 (and not I and not his teachers) and 
pulling only 1 A (In weight lifting...get real)....and the rest were 
sluff-off c's. He has gotten nearly all A's and only a few C's when he 
applies himself. 
About the spelling thing...it had all but died out so if it comes to 
life again, well, you will have had something to do with it being 
"reborn".  :)
LP>LP>>For what it's worth in regard to the invented spelling issue...I
LP>LP>>seem to remember being told in some university pedagogy class
LP>LP>>that it takes an average of only two to three repetitions to
LP>LP>>learn something, but it takes an average of 27-30 reps to UNlearn
LP>LP>>something incorrectly learned.
Students should be made aware that their spellings are _attempts_ and 
for beginning writers (first graders) approximated spellings are what we 
are going to get if we have them try their hand at writing.  The bigger 
question for some is "Why have students who cannot spell many words 
correctly write at all?"  Some believe that students should first learn 
correct conventions of writing before they attempt to write anything.  
Of course, this is not my view.  
 
LP>LP>>As a student, I was never corrected on certain words & STILL have
LP>LP>>problems remembering how to spell responsi/responsability.  I
LP>LP>>KNOW it's responsi, but I WANT to spell it responsa, because
LP>LP>>that's the way I **always** did it & I never got it marked wrong.
LP>LP>>Oh, well. 
Certain words still give me trouble and I did not grow up with invented 
spelling.  I don't think invented spelling is the issue.  It seems to me 
that the issue is that when students are doing something incorrect, 
teachers have a repsonsibility to try and help those students learn how 
to do "it" correctly.  This would be true for any area of learning I 
would think.  For me, students should learn how to do something 
correctly when they can cognitively handle the information and apply it.  
For example: I teach chess.  I see mistakes being made all the time.  I 
don't correct each mistake because some chess concepts and strategies 
are way over the heads of even some of my more experienced players.  But 
as my players are ready for more abstract concepts, (discovered checks, 
forks, combinations, pawn structure, related squares, king opposition 
and end game technique) then I present the information.  When I see 
mistakes being made that should not be made, I go over the concept 
again.   
LP> DT> Great Leona...but approximated spellings are not learned
LP> DT> spellings and do NOT have to be unlearned.  Most people
LP> DT> misunderstand this point and many seem to ignore it altogether.
LP> 
LP>No, Dan, I wasn't ignoring it.  I DO think that approximated
LP>spellings can be learned & retained in the student's memory as being
LP>correct, hence the example of my own experience.
We are both correct.  Maybe we define approximated spelling differently?
LP>I was making the point that if a correction isn't made at SOME period
LP>in a student's life, 
I fully agree with you here and I believe it should start early.  I 
think that anytime a student publishes his/her work that all spelling 
errors should be corrected by then.  I wouldn't begin this too early in 
the child's writing experiences but I would begin correcting *some* 
errors in the 1st grade.  The higher the grade level, the higher my 
expectations would be for correct spelling.  Also, words that a student 
frequently misspells, especially words they should know at their grade 
level, I would expect to see these words spelled correctly in rough 
drafts.    
the student could end up in a situation similar
LP>to that in which one of my 8th graders found himself last year: he
LP>named his grafitti tagging team the SSK (Siko Skatin' Krew.)  No one
LP>ever bothered telling him that "psycho" starts with a silent p.
LP>Needless to say, my 7th period class reamed him publicly which,
LP>altho' he denied it, embarrassed him when it was pointed out by the
LP>students that he was emblazoning his spelling error on walls around
LP>downtown.  I won't even address the k for krew.
The fact that the other students knew how to spell these words could 
indicate that this particular student was one who did not work at 
improving his spelling -- (you know...like in the previous post).  I'm 
not sure invented spelling can be blamed for this.  However, I do agree 
that when students routinely misspell certain words, it is our job to 
provide them with spelling strategies so that they can become proficient 
spellers.
LP>I'm sure you'll feel impelled to reply since this seems to be a
LP>crusade for you,   
Is that a bad thing?  Actually I rather like debating these issues since 
I learn so much from what others have to say.  I truly believe in what I 
have said regarding Whole Language and spelling..but without the view 
point of others I can not fully examine my beliefs.  If I only spoke to 
those whose viewpoints were similar to mine.....well...you know what I'd 
get.  
I'm wondering how to get my Togolese girls to learn to spell this 
ridiculous language.
Huked on fonics?
Appreciated what you had to say.....it is good food for thought and I 
will munch on it some more.  
Dan
--- GEcho 1.11+
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