jimmcginn{at}yahoo.com (Jim McGinn) wrote 

> > > What causal forces--if any at all--are associated with
> > > an allele becoming fixed?  (Think carefully before you
> > > answer.)
> > >
> > Is this a trick question? 
> 
> I don't ask trick questions.
> 
> > Say we have a population of mice. One mouse has
> > the only allele in the population for a furry tail. It is recessive so it
> > isn't expressed in his phenotype.
> > One day he and another mouse emerge from a burrow. A hawk swoops. Our mouse
> > runs for the bushes at the right, the other mouse runs for the
long grass at
> > the left. The hawk swerves right - end of the furry tail allele.
> > The hawk's decision to swerve right has caused the elimination of the furry
> > tail allele, and the hawk's decision was itself caused by who knows what.
> > However from our perspective we can ignore the myriad causes of alleles
> > being eliminated or passed on independently of their selective power. We
> > just say "random chance has eliminated the furry tail allele".
> 
> What is the causal force?
> 
> [moderator's gentle suggestion: You first, Jim: what is 
> the "causal" force

Science attaches a very specific meaning to the term force.  
My understanding of biological phenomena is that it always 
involves a lot of relatively small intracausal and 
intercausal forces, on the part of both the lifeform and 
it's environment, happening continuously.  He inferred *a* 
force.  I'm just wondering what specific force he's 
speaking of.  Seems like a perfectly reasonable question 
to me.  (But then, I'm not a neoDarwinists.)

> which eliminates the furry tail allele? I expect you
> to say natural selection,

NS is not a force, it's a process.  But, to answer your 
question, I have no trouble at all with the notion that 
the process of NS eliminated the furry tail allele.

> but I'm willing to be surprised. 

I'd be surprised if I could ever get any of you 
neoDarwinists to ever employ terminology (verbiage) 
accurately and precisely so that we can get beyond the 
spiritualism that dominates peoples thinking in this 
field.

> But you
> better hurry, otherwise you'll have to wait until 20 July to get
> a reply in. - JAH]
> 
> Jim
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