Hi Michiel!

Friday July 14 2006, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Vladimir Donskoy:

 VD>> I want speak about compare this (or other votings) to Z7 referendum
 VD>> result - and decide of ZCC about it is not correct, quorum on it is
 VD>> real and statement state on it - is the law. So they answer is
 VD>> non-right, and must be ignore.

 MV> That is not how it works. The ZCC is the highest authority in FidoNet and
 MV> they have rejected the Z7 proposal. You may not like that and of course
 MV> you natural reaction is to say that they were wrong, but that is not going
 MV> to do any good. I did not like it either when they ruled against me, and
 MV> my reaction also was that they were wrong. But the fact is that that is
 MV> where the buck stops. You shall just have to learn to live with it.

Yes, but ZCC basis is "quorum". I speak that qourum in FIDO is
different from real-live quorum and in our case it was enought.

 VD>>>> Yes, but Ward is not working on it...

 MV>>> Nobody indicated doing something about ZMH was an acceptable
 MV>>> compromise, all the dissidents kept on screaming they wantd a
 MV>>> zone 7 instead. Besides, Ward can not do that on his own.
 MV>>> Changing ZMH needs world wide consensus. And there is no
 MV>>> consensus.

 VD>> Oh, Mike, when you understand that we is not "dissidents",

 MV> But you are...

 VD>> we is a real FIDO sysops and want to continue of existance of the
 VD>> FIDO!

 MV> So do I. Why do you think I am still here after all these years? I like
 MV> FidoNet and I would like it to go on for many more years.

 MV> But IMHSHO the best way to achieve that is to just hang on and keep
 MV> writing. As I am doing....

I think that this is a way to "slow death" - not to "life".

 MV>>>>> Plus of course that there is always the alternative
of running
 MV>>>>> the system as a point if one is unable or unwilling
to observe
 MV>>>>> ZMH.

 VD>>>> Point have no rights,

 MV>>> Points can send and receive mail. That is all that really
 MV>>> matters.

 VD>> This is all points rights, they can't resolve all other problems.

 MV> The only real problem of FidoNet is lack of participants. What we need are
 MV> people who write messages. Points can do that just as well as sysops.

 VD>> And they can't send mail (only through boss),

 MV> Points can crash messages to systems that ae on-line.

 VD>> and they can't receive mail (only through boss).

 MV> Not so. Points *can* be on-line for receiving message directly without
 MV> having it routed through their boss. Try sending a message directly to
 MV> 2:280/100.55.

 MV> There is not much of an advantage for a point to be on-line for receiving
 MV> messages directly, but it *can* be done...

Keyword is "directly", in modern world it is
"anachronizm" (old technology). Very most sysops receive his mail
by route, and this is more quickly and beatiful way.

 VD>> They restrict establish connections, and restrict echoes set which
 VD>> have they boss.

 MV> A point is not restricted to one boss. He can have as many bosses as his
 MV> mailer will allow him to have akas. He can get his echomail anywhere he
 MV> wants just like a node. In fact a point has *more* freedom as he is not
 MV> bond by geo restrictions imposed by P4.

 VD>>  So: point and sysop - different levels and status.

 MV> Yep. A point is free form ZMH restrictions....

Only. Points are free from all rights and obligations too.

 VD>>>> he have no response even for his traffic! So - sysop not like
 VD>>>> down his status to point...

 MV>>> And so we are back to "status" again...

 VD>> Only if they agree with ZMH? No, it is not corect way!

 MV> Your opinion....

Yes, of course - all of my writing is IMHO.

 VD>> I can see large number of e-mail-only nodes, it is the sysops who not
 VD>> want to be points and who find "back-way" for round of ZMH.

 MV> E-mail only nodes should never have been allowed. They have the
 MV> reachability of points and hence *should* be points.

Read nodelist or Ward's decisions!

I agree with you - EON is nonsense, but now they exist...

 MV>>>>> You lost credibility on that arguments with your z6 dual
 MV>>>>> listing stunt.

 VD>>>> Our RC have dual listing too

 MV>>> Not any more.

 VD>> And Anatoly Tung, who real live in Moscow and control his node by
 VD>> Internet. His second node is 2:5020/388.

 MV> Which is wrong. And BTW, where *is* Anatoly? AFAIK he is certified ghost.

He was a sysop who work in Vietname. After his contract was finish he
return to Moscow.

 VD>> More is inusefull - we have a RC, a NC and a sysop... This is enought
 VD>> for begin of Region transfer, if this resolution is accept.

 MV> But it was rejected. Live wih it.

Yes...

 VD>>>> I have same authority at our region too (I was NC 2:5055 for 2
 VD>>>> times and I still NEC of this now, if speak about official
 VD>>>> "hats")...

 MV>>> Two plus two still does not equal five, no matter how many hats
 MV>>> of athority you put on...

 VD>> I speak about not "many hats" but about "many
sysops which support
 VD>> us".

 MV> Two plus two still does not equal five no matter how many support that
 MV> theory...

Summary two parts of Uran-235 (at same kg each) and you get very more bad
things... So - 1+1 can be "large number of things", not 2
"pieces of same".
And 1 (men) plus 1 (women) give "many" (childrens)...

So - social mathematic is not arithmetic!


Regards, Vladimir Donskoy

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