Andrew Cummins discussing "Space, Time, & Energy- B" with Day Brown...
 DB>> If you could be there to witness the Big Bang, where is the 'there 
 DB>> there' that you could be?  If all mass and energy of the universe  is
 DB>> in a single point, then of course, it would be a black hole of  such
 DB>> power that no light would be emmitted for you to perceive an  image of
 DB>> what was happening.
 AC> I've never been clear on what Big Bangers believe as they seem to always
 AC> change their claims based on the evidence that they're trying to avoid.
Where is this "evidence" that "scientists are trying to avoid" that you speak 
of? Please post it in here and let us make our own minds up.
While you're at it, maybe you'd like to post the "scientific theory of 
creationism"?
The difference between science and your religion is that science bows to 
observation. If experiment/observation disproves your theory then your theory 
is just plain wrong.
You could hardly accuse creationism of that.
 AC> But, it seems popular to believe that there wasn't anything close to
 AC> enough gravity to hold things together (obviously, the mass of the
 AC> universe is less than that of a Black Hole).
Who is this "popular belief" held by? I've never heard of it. It certainly is 
not the belief amongst scientists.
Not only that, but let's look at your statement:
The mass of the Universe is less than that of a black hole.
Firstly, which black hole? Without stating the size of the black hole we have 
nothing against which to measure the Universe.
Secondly, how big is the Universe? Without stating the size of the Universe 
we have nothing against which to measure the black hole.
Thirdly, seeing as a black hole is WITHIN the Universe itself then the mass 
of the Universe includes the mass of the black hole and therefore the mass of 
the Universe is GREATER than the mass of a black hole, ANY black hole, and 
ALL black holes.
From this I conclude that you haven't the first clue what you're talking 
about or of what you even say.
    Relatif Tuinn
... Just spell out your madness so that we can ignore you quickly.
--- Spot 1.3a #1413
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