From: "John Beamish" 

I don't recall saying Cuba could be an advocate for human rights.  Where
did I say that?



"Paul Ranson"  wrote in message
news:3eb19d51$1{at}w3.nls.net...
> It's not my 'due process'
>
> I'm completely bemused that you think Cuba can be an advocate for human
> rights, especially given that 'balanced' report you linked to.
>
> Paul
>
> "John Beamish"  wrote in message
> news:3eb12c02{at}w3.nls.net...
> > Let's not waste bandwidth.  Your "due process" includes
elected judges,
> > elected prosecutors and elected sheriffs.  Your legal representation is
> > based on ability to pay.  Your jury of peers is a jury of those who
> weren't
> > smart enough to get a deferral.  Your trials are open only when it suits
> the
> > prosecution.  I'm not sure what you mean when you say "other
paraphernalia
> > that Cuba doesn't have to bother with" since I have never attended a
Cuban
> > trial but would certainly appreciate hearing about your experiences.
> >
> > You may find Cuba's presence a complete joke.  That simply shows how
> quickly
> > you are prepared to point the finger of blame while refusing to look
into
> a
> > mirror.
> >
> > And, while we're on the subject of Cuba ... how are things going in
> > Guantanamo?  Any trials?
> >
> > "Paul Ranson"  wrote in message
> news:3eb10f84{at}w3.nls.net...
> > > You're completely ignoring the human rights aspect.
> > >
> > > It doesn't matter how many people the US imprisons for breaching its
> > asinine
> > > drug laws, they get due process, legal representation, jury of their
> > peers,
> > > public trials, all the other paraphernalia that Cuba doesn't have to
> > bother
> > > with. And the right to protest and pressure to have the law changed.
> Most
> > of
> > > this is missing in Cuba.
> > >
> > > It is a complete joke that Cuba has any involvement in what should be
a
> > > campaign for improved human rights worldwide.
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > "John Beamish"  wrote in message
> > > news:3eb03a0f$1{at}w3.nls.net...
> > > > I am not.  Though I have visited Cuba twice, I know little of the
> Cuban
> > > > legal system.
> > > >
> > > > The point, which keeps getting side-stepped by everyone else is
quite
> > > basic:
> > > > "The White House on Tuesday expressed outrage that
Cuba has been
> > > re-elected
> > > > to the U.N. Human Rights Commission, only three weeks
after rounding
> up
> > > > dozens of dissidents and sending them to prison."
while, at the same
> > time,
> > > > the US imprisons people at a greater rate than any other country.
> > > >
> > > > From that pair of factual observations, I concluded
that Americans
> have
> > an
> > > > unbridled ignorance of what goes on outside their country.  It is
> beyond
> > > > understanding that the country which imprisons people
at a greater
> rate
> > > than
> > > > any other feels somehow compelled to hector the UNHCHR
for admitting
a
> > > > country which just imprisoned some people for breaking its laws.
> > > >
> > > > From the feedback I am seeing, the Americans in this
newsgroup are
> > acutely
> > > > embarrassed -- as they should be -- by Fleisher's remarks.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Paul Ranson"  wrote in message
> > > > news:3eb02dd9$1{at}w3.nls.net...
> > > > > You appear to be arguing an equivalence between
the due process
and
> > rule
> > > > of
> > > > > law in Cuba and the same in the US? And that
record of protecting
> the
> > > > human
> > > > > rights of its inhabitants qualifies it to promote
human rights in
> the
> > > rest
> > > > > of the world?
> > > > >
> > > > > Seems a bizarre line to take.
> > > > >
> > > > > Paul
> > > > >
> > > > > "John Beamish"
 wrote in message
> > > > > news:3eb008f8{at}w3.nls.net...
> > > > > > In sequence:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (though I must interject with a brief
comment)  I notice you are
> > > > > interested
> > > > > > in the nits and not the general substance: 
Ari Fleisher rails
> > against
> > > > > Cuba
> > > > > > for jailing several dissidents while ignoring
the inconvenient
> fact
> > > that
> > > > > the
> > > > > > US leads the world -- as they do in so many
areas -- in the
prison
> > > > > > population rate.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's hardly a cheap shot, it's a researched
(however briefly)
> reply
> > to
> > > > > Tony
> > > > > > showing (yet again) that his and Ari
Fleisher's knowledge of
what
> > > > happens
> > > > > > outside the US -- somewhat better, it
appears, than CNN's -- is
> > myopic
> > > > (to
> > > > > > say the least).  (You may recall that I
posted a cite to a study
> > that
> > > > > noted
> > > > > > nearly 20% of American males aged 18-24
couldn't find the United
> > > States
> > > > on
> > > > > > an outline map of the world.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The site is http://www.unhchr.ch/ and I did,
indeed, leave off
the
> > > "er"
> > > > on
> > > > > > my reference.  Interestingly, if you go to
> > http://www.un.org/english/
> > > > and
> > > > > > click on "Human Rights" (it's in
the middle of the yellow text
at
> > the
> > > > > top),
> > > > > > you will be taken to http://www.unhchr.ch so
you may or may not
be
> > > > correct
> > > > > > that the web site '... seems to use Commission on Human
Rights...'
> > but
> > > > you
> > > > > > didn't give me a url to see the context.  Its home page
certainly
> > uses
> > > > the
> > > > > > phrase I identified.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

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