From: Adam Flinton 

William F. Zachmann wrote:
> Adam,
>
> No.  Pursuing your own analogy, it would have been (rather more) similar had
> the Israelis taken over the entire Middle East.  However, they did not.

Ah right I was wondering about that when I hit "post" i.e. if you
would compare Israel/Palestine vs the whole Arab world or Israel vs
Palestine in the land between the med & the Jordan.


> On
> the other hand, this Arabs/Palestinians would not be in the pickle they are
> in were it not for their refusal to acknowledge that they Jews have a
> reasonable claim, too.

A claim based essentially on "God gave it to us" is always going
to be disputed by people who don't adhere to that religion.


> They are simply stupid, to the extent that they
> think it make any sense to pursue a policy based upon the assumption that
> Israel can simply be eliminated entirely (which has been the fundamental
> Arab/Palestinian folly since 1948).

Humm...the same could have been said wrt their reaction to the crusader
kingdoms at their height (which were also based on "God gave it to
us").

As it is bit by bit the kingdoms shrank till the last port cities fell.

Long term they are probably right. Israel's biggest threat by far is peace
as then it becomes a matter of simple demographics (assuming Israel
continues to be a democracy). This is basically what happened to the
Crusaders. The Western states steadily lost interest in sending men
& money out east....but the Arabs were still there...

> The ultimate resolution is obvious (and
> more or less reasonably stated in the  "roadmap for peace").
 The critical
> issue is whether or not the US (and the world community at large as well) is
> as determined to deal with Israeli intransigence as with Arab/Palestinian
> intransigence.

Yup. & I simply don't believe they are. It will take actions to
convince. Take not the isolated illegal settlements (even illegal under
Israeli law) but the places like Ariel. What (esp right wing) Israeli admin
is going to be able to stand up to them? & if the Israeli gov says
  "no it's impossible" then will the US say..."no it's
not...do you see
this aircraft carrier/british base in Cyprus..do you see all the aircraft.
Do you see this cash you need to keep going?  Now explain to us again why
it's "impossible".

I don't see that happening as instantly AIPAC will swing into action &
suddenly 100 congress people will sign something saying "don't be so
nasty to Israel".


> If the US proves itself merely to be a mercenary agent of
> Israel, ultimate catastrophe is certain.  If the US and its allies show
> proper balance, a century of unprecedented peace and prosperity may be
> realized after all.  "We'll see," said the blind man -- as
he stumbled down
> the stairs.
>

Oh indeed. I would love to see a happy bunch of campers in the area as
frankly the whole area needs to get going as the cash from oil is only
going to last a bit longer (both because of tech pushing for less
oil/fossil fuel use & simply how much is under the sand).

If you accept that in order to change people's view of economic realities
then it will take one generation (i..e kids about to go to school now >
graduating as a plumber, engineer etc).

Most of the area is in dire economic straights if you pull oil out of the
economy. I would love to see some sort of Middle Eastern Free trade
Zone.....but...

I don't think a lot of people realise actually how long it will take even
if the whole thing was settled tomorrow. Again it will take a new
generation to whom lockdowns & assasination & suicide bombings are
something they read about in history to make that real.

& that's not counting the possible convulsions which wil grip many
Arab/Middle Eastern societies once the Israel/Palestine problem is gone as
a usefull device for local dictatorships to divert their populace from
local problems (e.g. Egypt & it's poor econ).


Adam

Adam

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