From: Tony Williams 

I can't really disagree with much of that and it seems to reinforce what I
said - get out of the region and concentrate on making sure we don't need
its oil.

I will note that Europe and north America were settled after the middle
east and are currently in better shape. My suspicion is that it's because
western secularism is a better model for civilisation than fundamentalist
religion.

--
Tony

Adam > wrote:
> Tony Williams wrote:
>> Phil Payne wrote:
>>>>> Yet another childish GOP distraction from the only
issue of the day -
>>> the
>>>>> USA's disaster in Iraq.
>>>> The mess in the middle east is insignificant compared to
the mess we're
>>>> making of the climate.
>>> That's not the issue of the day but the issue of the decade.
>> On the other hand the middle east's been a mess for millennia, not just
>> since the oil reserves out there became useful to the west. We have a
>> prefect opportunity to stay well out of it and concentrate on making
>> sure we don't need their oil. Callous, maybe, but we seem to have done
>> more harm than good in Iraq by getting involved - even if it was for
>> noble humanitarian reasons as some still insist.
>>
>
> ??? The world has been a mess for millennia. The Middle East less so
> than many places (e.g. Europe, Africa, the Americas) in part because it
> has simply passed from one empire to the next. e.g. it ended up being
> part of the British Empire via the Ottoman empire via the marmalukes via
> the mongols etc.
>
> Compare that the the fun & games in the Americas with the coming of the
> white man or in Europe with ....the coming of the white man.....ok
> simply fighting amongst themselves/having very violent
> revolutions/creating world wars/engaging in massive genocide etc in the
> same period.
>
> What has been going on in the middle east is similar to what happens in
> long term subjugated parts of empires. Look at the Balkans as another
> example, or large chunks of Africa. Takes a people a while to re-adjust
> their society away from appealing to a far off master to deal with their
> problems & to avoid the "big/strong man" which is also a
result of this
> ("i.e. a replacement for a "governor-general") etc.
>
>
> Adam

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