From: "Mark" 

You're carrying over the last conversation into this one, I still disagree
on that thread, but, Hoekstra isn't upset about the programs being
implemented, he was questioning the fact that he hadn't been briefed on
this one or that in a timely manner. That's since been corrected and the
papers are highlighting the wrong points in his letter IMHO.

We invented the Internet and turned it loose on the world, our enemies are
thanking us very much and using it against us. Your position seems to be,
c'est la vie, let it rock and roll; let our enemies use our creation
against us because it's some terrible affront to our freedom and privacy if
we are to monitor the use of our creation by our enemies that want us dead
and buried and as soon as they can do so.

Hell, what an odd time to say we shouldn't watch them using our Internet
when we just foiled a plot to take out thousands of commuters on PATH from
NJ to NY *by doing just that*. I remain willing to have them find out that
I like Skippy Natural "no need to stir" Peanut Butter if it means
they can save my life on the way to work.

"Rich Gauszka"  wrote in message
news:44b1b956$1{at}w3.nls.net...
> Even the FBI admitted to mishandling information that could have detected
> the terrorist pilots prior to 9/11. That you see the need for us to give
> up liberties for this bureaucratic incompetence astounds me.
>
>
>
> "Mark"  wrote in message
news:44b19348$1{at}w3.nls.net...
>> Oh c'mon Rich, we've revamped our intelligence apparatus in a big way
>> since 9/11, when they didn't stop the plot, as they didn't in the first
>> WTC attack, and there are bound to be oversteps/oversights in this area
>> or that, it's going to take awhile to get it all together properly.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Rich Gauszka"  wrote in message
>> news:44b18e09$1{at}w3.nls.net...
>>> Good grief Mark - The world is as it's always been - only the names of
>>> the 'bad' guys making the threats have changed.  Agencies charged to
>>> protect us have made arrests and stopped plots well before Bush was a
>>> thought. The frightening event in the future is the dissolution of our
>>> liberties and not some amorphous bogeyman.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mark"  wrote in message
>>> news:44b18877$1{at}w3.nls.net...
>>>> That the internal whistleblower thing worked the way it
was supposed to
>>>> (up until some ass leaked the letter itself) is a good
thing. Hoekstra
>>>> also said there's no way that they can/want to be briefed on every
>>>> single program, he felt these should have made the cut.
>>>>
>>>> What this tells me, is that we're in a transition phase
adjusting to a
>>>> new world-wide threat and it's going to take some time to get it all
>>>> sorted out (via squabbles such as this one and Supreme
Court input in
>>>> other areas, as well as continuing adjustments in the way other
>>>> agencies and departments communicate).
>>>>
>>>> I just don't see how this transition can be expected to be
accomplished
>>>> with no missteps at all, but, eh, let's blame Bush. 
>>>>
>>>> This part of his letter, however, is what I found
interesting and quite
>>>> disturbing:
>>>>
>>>> "In fact, I have long been convinced that a strong
and well-positioned
>>>> group within the Agency intentionally undermined the
Administration and
>>>> its policies.  This argument is supported by the Ambassador
>>>> Wilson/Valerie Plame events, as well as by the string of
unauthorized
>>>> disclosures from an organization that prides itself with
being able to
>>>> keep secrets.  I have come to the belief that, despite his
service to
>>>> the DO, Mr. Kappes may have been a part of this group.  I must take
>>>> note when my Democratic colleagues - those who so
vehemently denounced
>>>> and now publicly attacked the strong choice of Porter Goss as
>>>> Director - now publicly support Mr. Kappes's return."
>>>> http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2006/07/hoekstra_cia_gr.html
>>>>
>>>> What we've got going on, I think, is a plethora of power
struggles, and
>>>> it ain't purty and it ain't making us safer or expediting the
>>>> elimination of terrorist groups around the world. So I
wish they'd all
>>>> swallow their egos and kiss and make up >>> over>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Rich Gauszka"  wrote
in message
>>>> news:44b17a2e{at}w3.nls.net...
>>>>> Well now the Republican chair of the House
Intelligence Committee is
>>>>> saying it. Perhaps Bush really likes to play 'Twenty Questions'
>>>>>
>>>>>
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=politicsNews&storyID=
2006-07-09T143910Z_01_N09148126_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-INTELLIGENCE.xml
>>>>>
>>>>> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration was
running several
>>>>> intelligence programs, including one major activity,
that it kept
>>>>> secret from Congress until whistle-blowers told the House of
>>>>> Representatives Intelligence Committee, the
committee's chairman said
>>>>> on Sunday.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rep. Pete Hoekstra, a Michigan Republican who chairs the House
>>>>> Intelligence Committee, said on Fox News Sunday he had written a
>>>>> four-page to President George W. Bush in May warning
him that the
>>>>> failure to disclose the intelligence activities to
Congress may be a
>>>>> violation of the law.
>>>>>
>>>>> In doing so, he confirmed a story that first ran in
Sunday editions of
>>>>> the New York Times.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "I take it very, very seriously otherwise I would
not have written the
>>>>> letter to the president," Hoekstra said.
>>>>>
>>>>> "This is actually a case where the whistle-blower
process was working
>>>>> appropriately and people within the intelligence
community brought to
>>>>> my attention some programs that they believed we had
not been briefed
>>>>> on. They were right," said Hoekstra, a close ally of Bush.
>>>>>
>>>>> "We asked by code name about some of these
programs. We have now been
>>>>> briefed on those programs but I wanted to reinforce to
the president
>>>>> and to the executive branch and the intelligence community how
>>>>> important by law is the requirement that they keep the
legislative
>>>>> branch informed of what they are doing," Hoekstra said.
>>>>>
>>>>> The White House declined to comment directly on the
allegations in
>>>>> Hoekstra's letter. "We will continue to work
closely with the chairman
>>>>> and other congressional leaders on important national security
>>>>> issues," said Alex Conant, a White House spokesman.
>>>>>
>>>>> Critics have charged that the Bush administration has
a penchant for
>>>>> secrecy and has pushed its legal powers to the limit
and possibly
>>>>> beyond in pursuing its "war on terror." But
Hoekstra's complaint was
>>>>> particularly significant since it came from a strong
supporter of the
>>>>> administration's tactics.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hoekstra complained in his letter to Bush that the U.S. Congress
>>>>> "simply should not have to play 'Twenty
Questions' to get the
>>>>> information that it deserves under our Constitution."
>>>>>
>>>>> In the letter and the interview, Hoekstra did not
provide details
>>>>> about the programs, which presumably remain secret.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hoekstra had been briefed about both the National
Security Agency's
>>>>> domestic surveillance program and the Treasury
Department's tracking
>>>>> of international banking transactions, both of which
were leaked to
>>>>> the media.
>>>>>
>>>>> He said he did not expect to be briefed about
everything intelligence
>>>>> agencies were doing but at least one of the secret
activities was a
>>>>> major program which Congress definitely should have
been informed
>>>>> about.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In the letter, Hoekstra said the lack of disclosure possibly
>>>>> constituted a "breach of responsibility by the
administration, a
>>>>> violation of the law, and, just as importantly, a
direct affront to me
>>>>> and the members of this committee who have so ardently supported
>>>>> efforts to collect information on our enemies."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

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