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echo: audio
to: CAMERON HALL
from: RICK MCBROOM
date: 1998-01-28 05:24:00
subject: CD-R

 -=> Quoting Cameron Hall to Rick Mcbroom <=-
 RM>> Sun damage?  Why are you worried about sun damage?  You shouldn't
 RM>> expose /any/ flavor of Compact Disc to prolonged direct sunlight!
 CH> True.  But it inverably happens, not on a prolonged scale, but..
 Personally, I wouldn't worry about short-term exposure to sunlight.
 CH> ..can't be avoided, if you're on a bus etc and changing CD's... :-)
 Yes, but 9 times out of 10, the sunlight will strike only the top of
 the disc, which doesn't carry data anyway.
 RM>>  I began converting my favorite vinyl to CD-R about 4 months ago.
 CH> Win95, from what I've heard has some bizzarre 1 minute at a time
 CH> limit, which, by a very convoluted method, can be worked around.
 I am using Win95, and I'm not aware of any such limitation.
 CH> ..the software that came with it get around that assinine behavour?
 The OmniWriter comes bundled with HyCD, and if there is such a limitation,
 HyCD makes it completely transparent. My only gripe is that the OEM version
 requires you to burn one track at a time, when doing line-in recording. The
 "full version" lets you pick as many tracks as you want. It's not that big
 of a deal, though, since you can't multi-task when you're burning a CD, in
 any case. It only means that you have to keep an eye on the process, and
 select each successive track off the menu when the previous one's complete,
 where with the full version you can select all the tracks at once, and walk
 away from it.  When duping CD-to-CD,  the OEM version of HyCD can be left
 unattended, though.
 Oh, and for data, they bundle Adaptec's DirectCD, which lets you write to
 the CD as you would any other device, with Windows Explorer, etc. It works
 fine. Windows Backup will NOT work with the CD-R, though. In fact, the only
 backup software that /will/ work with CR-R/CD-RW, as far as I can tell, is
 Seagate's Backup Exec. And even then, it's not specifically supported.. But
 Backup Exec has such powerful customization that it's no problem to set up
 a profile for the CD burner.
 RM>> One caveat: resist the temptation of low-priced IDE CD-R burners,
 RM>> and get a top-quality SCSI unit.
 CH> Can you be more specific as to where it's lacking?  Sound quality?
 CH> Errors?  Compatablity with regular CD players?
 In a word, speed. The sound quality and compatibility are identical between
 IDE and SCSI burners, but a SCSI system will let you do it in half the time
 of IDE, at worst, and 1/4 the time if your system is tuned perfectly.
 RM>> If I had it to do over again, I'd gut my system and install all SCSI
 RM>> devices. ..triple..the cost, but it's worth it in the long run. 
 CH> And the attraction to SCSI is?
 Again, it's purely a throughput issue.
 The best IDE burners, so far, can write at 2x speed when doing CD-to-CD
 duplication. But an IDE device is subject to buffer under-runs, so unless
 you want to risk clipped and/or orphan tracks, you have to use the "test-
 before-write" option, and that means you're effectively back to real-time
 mastering.  With a SCSI burner you can do CD-CD duplication at 4x with the
 "test-before-write" turned off, and still be 99.4% sure of a good dup. That
 assumes that both the read /and/ write CD drives are SCSI, of course. A few
 semi-pro SCSI burners can write at 8x, though that's dicey. You really need
 to "test-before-write" at 8x, I imagine. And 8x burners are expen$ive!
 With a line-in recording, it's even worse. To get good transfers with my
 OmniWriter, I use this routine;
 1. Record the line in source to the hard drive as a .WAV file, using
    CoolEdit software. Note that each song must be a seperate .WAV file,
    in order to be properly indexed on the final CD. This is a real-time
    operation, of course.
 2. Listen to the .WAV file, to verify that I didn't get any buffer
    under-runs. You can dispense with this if you're brave.. while not
    common, buffer under-runs DO happen, especially if the track is a
    long one (over 7 to 8 minutes, say). Also real-time.
 3. Convert the .WAV file to .CDR format. This takes place at aprox. 6x
    to 8x speed.
 4. Burn the .CDR files to the CD-R at 2x, with "test-before-write". So
    it's real-time, in effect.
 As you can see, it's a time consuming process. It takes me 3-1/2 to 4
 hours to make a CD-R with 60 minutes of music content, using a line-in
 source. You can eliminate step 2 and save an hour, but you'll make the
 occasional beer-coaster, too.  It /might/ be possible to save 8 to 10
 minutes in step 3, if you can find software that will record a line-in
 source directly to the .CDR format. However, if such software exists, I
 haven't been able to find it.
 With a SCSI system (note that this means a SCSI CD burner AND a SCSI hard
 drive), I reckon you could do a 60-minute music CD-R in just under 1-1/2
 hours. Steps 1 and 3 are the same, but step 2 is eliminated, and step 4
 takes place at true 4x speed. Still not exactly as easy as a cassette deck
 (or DAT..), but lots better than an IDE burner!
 RM>> Connecting my turntable directly to the PC is not convenient..
 CH> And no RIAA equalization either. :-)
 Right, I'd have to lug my turntable /and/ preamp over to the PC.
 RM>> I dub the LPs to a high-quality cassette (metal tape & Dolby S),
 RM>> then use that to master the CD-R. Sounds just fine.
 CH> I would think that 1) Ultra-sonic "noise" from the vinyl and 2)
 CH> subsonic rumble would create problems.
 I don't see why.. ? Certainly no more of a problem than recording an LP
 to a conventional cassette or DAT.
 CD> Not to mention that if what comes with Win95 is any indecation, the
 CD> "scope" metering doesn't have the transient response of any decent
 CD> cassette deck.
 In pratice, it's working just fine, for me.  I'd defy anyone to tell the
 difference between the cassette and the CD-R! And unless you have a pair
 of those fabled "golden ears" you ain't gonna tell the difference between
 the original vinyl and the CD-R, either.  That depends on the quality of
 the cassette deck & tape, naturally. Any degradation in sound quality will
 come at that point...
 Anyway, let me know if & when you get a CD-R, I'd be most interested in
 hearing your experiences.
... NP: Billy Bragg _Talking With The Taxman About Poetry_            
--- GEcho 1.11+
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* Origin: The Music Room, Memphis TN (901) 452-2134 (1:123/38)

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