Hi Charles,
Still catching up with mail here...
 CB>There are two issues here.  The first is our confusion over whole
  >language and inventive spelling - no two people define it the same
  >way.  The degree to which spelling is taught (or not taught) depends
  >a great deal on the teacher.
But isn't that the same for a lot of other things, too, Charles. I go
into classrooms that rarely have Art or Music or spend lots of time on
language and little, comparatively, on Math, etc.
The second issue is that of formal
  >spelling instruction.  I believe it should be taught formally the
  >same week kids begin to read and write.  One can't know the word
  >"the" until they know it is made up of the letters t-h-e and in that
  >order.
Well, I don't know what you mean by formal instruction here. The whole
part of Whole Language is that you teach reading, writing, spelling,
etc. at the same time.
In a good kindergarten program, such as Dan's and all the friends' that
I have that teach kindergarten, the children are being exposed to
reading, writing and spelling from the first week. If you teach reading,
you are teaching writing and spelling, if you teach writing, you are
teaching reading and spelling.
I think both Dan and I have mentioned the Morning, or Daily message to
you before. You write, you talk about what you are doing, the children
help you write/spell the words. Afterwards, you read what you have
written, etc. etc.
So if I print the word "the" the children see that it is made up of the
letters t-h-e..we may even spell it out and sound it out together and
read it together. These are the common words that children learn to read
first but if may take a while to be able to spell them. I for one can
read accurately far more words than I can spell...and I believe most, if
not all, people would say the same.
  Until I can see a number of well-documented studies that
  >prove it's a better way, I'll remain skeptical about transitional 
elling.
I still don't think you understand what transitional spelling is all
about. What would you rather do. Have the children try to spell a word
based on what they know or not write at all? Remember, again, here I am
talking about young children. By the time children reach grade four they
should be relying more and more on dictionaries, etc. But if a child has
been asked to write a first draft in creative writing, I would rather
they get their ideas down first than worry about all the spelling
mistakes they are likely to make.
When I was in University studying to be a teacher, our language
practicum instructor made us write every week and keep a log of our
experiences. We had to look into how we wrote - the processes..how we
went about it. It was quite an eye opener and made me more aware of what
the kids go through...even though I am a much more experienced writer.
So try it Charles, sit down every week and just write and then think
about what you did as you wrote. (I won't include BBS ing here as it's a
slightly different technique)
  >language skills.  My point was that writing gibberish on a piece of
  >paper is not as effective a way to teach language development as are
  >the techniques mentioned above.
I would rather have a four year old that scribbles lines or random
letters on a page than never even pick up a pencil. If you want a good
read and understanding of how children learn to write, pick up a copy of
"The Beginnings Of Writing" by Charles Temple, Ruth Nathan, Nancy
Burris, & Frances Temple. One of the best books I had to buy in
University.
CB>I believe that the traditional instructional techniques work better
  >than what Dan is using.  Whole Language is a product of the
  >"self-esteem now" philosophy under which we allow children to
  >achieve at their comfort level and we praise them for
  >inconsequential growth.  We need to set age-appropriate standards
  >and ensure that the children are meeting those goals.  Spelling included.
I wasn't aware that Whole Language was considered a "Self-Esteem" now
philosophy but  when I think of it yes, self esteem is taken into
consideration. However, self esteem considerations, should not make a
difference in standards. I encourage my students all the time, that
makes them willing to take risks and try even harder next time.
So I get a student that asks me how to spell a word...now I try most of
the time not to give them it but to ask them how they think it is spelt.
The problem with many children is they lack the confidence in their own
knowledge. 99% of the time when I ask the appropriate questions, sounds,
etc., the student spells the word quite accurately by themselves. Other
times, when it has an irregular spelling pattern, etc. they get most of
it and I give them the rest - and yes, I do congratulate them on what
they got so far correctly, and on the attempts they made to get the
(Continued to next message)
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