Hello Steven,

 MvdV>> I see. Next time remember that a Euro is almost one American
 MvdV>> Dollar. There s a few cents diofference but for practical
 MvdV>> purposes they can be set one it one. That should make it easier
 MvdV>> for you as I suppose you convert to US dollars more often.

 SH> Not if I can avoid it.  I wince when I buy something in US$
 SH> and get my bill in CAN$.

What I meant was that /if/ you convert, it is mostly from US to CAN and
back intread of to/from some other currency. Isn't that so?

 MvdV>> So you still pay a bit more than I do, but by far not as much as
 MvdV>> we thought before. The difference is some 4 Euros. So that is
 MvdV>> what you pay for your "free" local calls. According
to my latest
 MvdV>> telephone bill I paid EUR 1.09 for my non free local calls. So it
 MvdV>> would appear that I am still better off. But...

 SH> I may simply be paying more for my basic connection.

Perhaps. But you must pay in /some/ way for your local calls. TANSTAAFL.

 SH> A few years ago it was only 12 Euros but the basic local rate has
 SH> risen as long distance rates have come down.

Same here. (Not the amount, but the trend).

 SH> And do I pay the difference for "Free" local calls?  Not at
 SH> all because I would pay it if I made no local calls or if I
 SH> made 200 local calls.

You still pay.

Just start wondering what would happen if everyone would leave their lines
open 24 hour a day.

Onlt small private branch exchanges are what they call "non
saturable". That means every extension can be engaged in a
conversatiuon at the same time. It means it must have enough switches to
provide half as many paths as there are extensions. For small exchanges
this is feasible but for larger ones it is uneconomical. So larger PABX's
and public exchanges are saturated when more than a certain percentage of
the subscribers try to make a call a the same time. For the old mechanical
exchanges this was 7%. If seven out of a hundred subscribers in the same
bundle of hundred went off hook, the eightht will not get a dial tone
anymore. For the modern electronic exchanges this figure may be higher, but
it is not 100%.

Now there is two ways to handle this problem. Meter all calls so that
subscribers have an incentive to limit their calls or install more switches
to handle the increased load. because that is what /will/ happen. If
something is "free" people will make more use of it than when
they have to pay for it.

Yout "free" local calls are not and can not be truly free. In
fact simple economics tells us that on average the subscribers actually pay
more for it than when the calls are metered.

 SH> I can also make five calls a night and keep my mailer on-
 SH> line at least during ZMH if not longer.

For /you/ the "free" calls are of advantage. But that is only
because the others who make less use of it pay more...

 MvdV>> ... They (The ISP's in cohorts with the telcos) pulled another
 MvdV>> trick to sqeeze some more money out out of us customers. They
 MvdV>> have created a special area code (676) for calls to ISP's. For
 MvdV>> the moment they are at the same rate as local calls, but without
 MvdV>> the 10% frequently called numbers discount. Last bill shows EUR
 MvdV>> 5.06 for calls to ISP's. :-(

 SH> Is the ISP not charging a basic fee for access?

Some do, some don't. The "free" ones saddle you with more commercials.

My provider is the HCC, the Hobby Computer Club. I pay EUR 45 a
year for membership. For that I get "free" InterNet access. But I
get a lot more than just that for my membership fee.

 SH>  If they are, this sounds like highway robbery.:-)

I wouldn't call it robbery. They provide a service that I use and I pay for
that service. It may seem a high price, but it is still the cheapest way
for a casual InterNet user.

Asking EUR 1.70 for 60 minutes of parking in the "vicinity" of my
girl's apartment in Amsterdam; THAT's robbery.

 MvdV>> I hope you understand now why Fido over the InterNet here is not
 MvdV>> as attractive as it is in your place.

 SH> I don't think I ever thought it was.  If Internet access
 SH> over there is as cheap is it here, large numbers would have
 SH> deserted from Fidonet altogether and some would have opted
 SH> to become ION nodes.

Large numbers HAVE deserted FidoNet since the advent of affordable private
InterNet. FidoNet R28 is just a shadow of what it used to be. From the 1000
sysops and 5500 points there are just 50 sysops and 70 points left. Dutch
echomail has completely dried up. Why do you think I am here instead of in
a cosy local echo in my native language? Because it is all gone! Not enough
people left to make interesting conversation.

As for ION nodes, I don't know. As I said IP over dial up is not attractive
here, let alone ION over dial up.

It is only a viable option when one has a permanent non metered connection
to the InterNet.

At the moment the xdsl providers are in heavy competion. My favourite
provider now has a "light adsl" offer for EUR 29.95 a month plus
"free modem." The offer expires Jan. 31th. I am in doubt...

I think however that there is a serious risk that if I take it, I may find
whatever I find so interesting that I will loose interest in FidoNet....

Cheers, Michiel

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