AH> My solution?  You've all ready mentioned it, education.  I'm
AH> not talking about readin', writin', rithmatic; I'm talking
AH> about collective caring and cooperation from the "so called"
AH> formally educated.
Hi again. :) I read this area infrequently, due to the few messages
& I'm calling long distance. So, sorry if my messages seem untimely
or out of sync with things you have already said. I'm just debating
with you, 'cause, well, there aren't a whole lot of messages here.
I'd like to understand your point, and it is difficult, since you
seem to be complaining about 2 seperate things, and 'blaming' a
group that has little to do with either complaint! :) I do wish this
to be just a friendly little debate tho - if I piss you off, sorry,
and I'll move on to other things. Ok?
If you are trying to educate the American public, or the public of
other developed countries, then your job is mostly done. :)
Affluence seems to bring about a stable population, with fairly low
population growth. Japan & parts of Canada offer incentives to
increase the population, due to negative population growth. (The US
does have positive, tho low, growth, and I'm sure you would like to
get the govts to stop offering incentives. But these are minor
problems.)
If you are trying to educate third-world countries, then you darned
well better be concerned about reading, writing, & 'rithmatic!!!! :)
How, pray tell, _would it be possible_ to educate these folks? 
They can't use computers. Can't read newspapers & magazines. Don't
have a TV or telephone. How in blazes will you educate them????
They rely on children to take of them when they grow old. They don't
have hospitals, transportation systems, old homes, a social security
system. _Without these things_ they will not stop producing a large
population growth rate. And societies generally do not get any of
these things, until they get an educated population.
So in my opinion, you darned well better be concerned about reading,
writing, & 'rithmatic!!!! :) :)
AH> If the majority can just get there minds off "lining their
AH> pockets" and turn social attitudes toward living in harmony
AH> with nature, instead of being at war with it, this attitude, I
AH> am confident will work its way via mass media, including
AH> instruction to "3rd world" countries into the minds of the
AH> "lower" classes.
I don't see that being possible, until you educate them, increase
their standard of living, and give them the means to afford &
understand the 'mass media.' My whole point has been, that you
perhaps do not understand what you are asking for??? :) I think you
see the goal, but you do not understand a realistic way of getting
there? :)
AH> My concern is primarily this attitude of "If I can't make a
AH> buck off it, screw it!" Example: Here in Pinellas Co. we get
AH> our drinking water from a well field in the next county. Now
AH> we have "water wars". I have watched for 17 years, the
AH> environmental destruction and the thousands of deaths that
AH> have occurred from lakes and ponds turned to sand in that
AH> county.  All you hear about is "Where can we get more water?"
AH> Never, "Maybe we should stop building condos and 'creating'
AH> jobs so more people will move here and increase our income.
AH> What does it take to think beyond greed?  I only know for
I understand what you are saying. :) Being a farmer, I feel the same
way about 'farmland' vs 'city blocks of houses.' But do you see how
your argument looks?
1. Where should 'those people' live? Where should 'those people'
find economic security through jobs? Are you saying 'those people'
are less important than you are? After all, don't you use water, and
need a job too? Why are you important, and 'these people' are not?
Perhaps you found a 'better life' 17 years ago. Now, why can't
'these people' try to do the same? :)
2. In the USA, population growth is quite slow. People are moving
around, looking for a better place. The town I live by had about
13,000 people when I was born. It now has about 14,000. Yet, there
is an extreme housing shortage. Land is being cleared, and houses &
condos & apartments are going up. All over. Yet, there is no
population growth. People just want their own little space. They
want to improve their living conditions. Who am I to tell these
'other people' how to live? What would they feel towards me, if I
were to tell them they could not have a house; They could not
improve themselves? How arrogant I would look to them!
Do you see my point, Andrew? I wish the houses wouldn't 'waste'
farmland. I wish third world countries wouldn't increase their
populations when they can't handle the population they already have.
But I am not so arrogant as to _tell_ them what to do.
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