Hi Ho Tarragon,

 TM> Not a problem! Where are you located? I'm sure either I or Russell
 TM> would be able to upload the PD version of 64NET somewhere close to
 TM> you...

 Well im here in good old BALLARAT (vic) its like a hour outside melb
 If your an interstate person??

 TM>> I believe that figure is closer to 10-12 million.
 KP>>  Peter ?? from CBM GERMANY (raves in COMP.SYS.AMIGA.PROGRAMMER) said
 KP>> that figure ??...
 TM> I have no idea! I got that rough figure from an issue of Commodore
 TM> Format. I don't read any Amiga echoes so I can't comment.

 Its a hugh amount all the same..

 KP>>  oh well 6 million less door stops & book ends then .. 8^)
 TM> hehe.. just as a bit of trivia, did you know that in Poland and other
 TM> eastern block countries, the C64 is in demand? And I believe that
 TM> CBM-Germany is still making them, to cover this demand? Which might be
 TM> why the figure was quoted higher than I thought by that Peter guy...

 From what i read recently they are about 2 or just stopped C64 production
 in germany ... it had nothing to do with the cost of making the C64's 
 it was the cost of building the drives that was killing them ...
 Rather vague that but!. or maybe they just done make drives anymore ??

 KP>>  They really didnt put in the development time it needed to stay
 KP>> actively afloat for all these years... but i guess they simply thought
 KP>> it didnt warrant it. pity
 TM> Hopefully the new owners will put a bit more time into the development
 TM> part of it, though if Samsung or whoever get hold of it, this probably
 TM> won't happen :(

 CBM UK are all GO .. So i read yesterday ???? (again more rumours here!) 

 KP>>  The C64 was a great learning tool, the games industry owes this
 KP>> machine more than any other, My real concern with the c64 fading out
 KP>> is that where do entry level programmers begin these days , 16/32 bit
 KP>> systems just aint as forgiving as the good old c64 was. 8^(
 TM> In definate agreement. Also people aren't learning how to program in
 TM> 6502/Z80/ any lower class cpu anymore, which makes it a little
 TM> difficult for engineers to use these chips for small projects. Hey, I
 TM> might even be in demand one day ;)

 What as a history teacher ??? Hehe .... nar nar nar ..... just gaging !

 God even 68000's looking a little dated these days on the resume. 8^)

 KP>>  Well yep, im also of the same opinion i dont think it (c65) could have
 KP>> saved CBM. well not it they had of released it within the last couple
 KP>> of years. it might have made a diference like in 88-89 but they were
 KP>> boom amiga years .. so again as you say this is very unlikely.

 TM> Yep, if Commodore had of done things right, they'd still be alive
 TM> today. If they'd delayed the release of the Amiga for a few years,
 TM> released the C65, then made the Amiga C65 compatible, we might have had
 TM> a different story.

 Yeah well CBM didnt really do the ground work on the amiga but ... they
 simply jumped on it when it was offer'd to them.

 When the AGA chips where being designed none of the engineers knew
 how the ECS chips functioned .. so they had to reverse engineer them 
 to create AGA. (REAL CLEVER) hehe

 KP>>  hmmm its hard to say really, I had my original machine (c128) way back
 KP>> in 85 (maybe late 84 now ?) at that time i WANTED and was VERY willing
 KP>> to produce C128 only software . But i couldnt get any hardware info
 KP>> what so ever, the only stuff we really hit upon was the $d030 toggleing
 KP>> the 2 meg mode in 64 mode .. wow impressive stuff hey ... 8^)

 TM> (: Well, the 128 Programmers Reference Guide is VERY good as far as
 TM> info on the 128's concerned... Perhaps if you got a copy you could
 TM> write that 128 only game!?...

 Nar not Now days mate ... i really like having 16 32bit reg's to play
 with couldnt imagine only having A,X,Y registers anymore (yeah ok call me
 lazy .... ill agree!...coz i am lazy..)

 >>  One thing i didnt like about the C128 was not being able to read the
 >> current vertical beam position.... from memory theres only a frame
 >> refresh bit ?? whatever .. it made doing rasters lots of fun at the time.

 TM> ?? You could use the same registers as the C64 to find this out.. using
 TM> either $d012 or $d013 to find and steady the display, then switch to
 TM> the 8563...

 Is that in 64 or 128 mode ? ..

 Well anyway sorry ya lost me there ... i aint looked a c64/128 referance
 manual for some time!

 A mate of mines still coding away on the C64/128 but .. "QUETZAL" was
 and still is his handle... he's the reason i started reading this echo
 in fact.

 I think he's still doing some parts for a CROME (is it) 4 or 5 years
 demo ?? whatever.

 He sort of got me reinterested in the C64 again ... after seeing some
 rather clever demos .... TOWER POWER , and um ... something something
 XII.. both are very good

 KP>>  heheh . You must be a lot younger than me .. 8^)
 TM> Probably ;) how old are you?

 Why im Only 23.... (feel really old but!)

 KP>>  For i can smell the eproms burning now.... far into that haze...
 KP>>  As if it were only yesterday... 8^)

 TM> ... Drifting into the night, with my soldering iron in hand,
 TM>     I open up my 64, and survey the digital land;
 TM>     My fears have changed throughout the years,
 TM>     My knowledge focusing into a tight band;
 TM>     I make the change, and go to bed;
 TM>     And forget if there was any point to this poem at all.
 TM>     Ho hum.

 Hmmm so there's hope for ageing C64 gurus then?

 We can all buy Drum Machines / Sample old Sky Hooks songs and
 make our fortune in teenage just hits mags ( Oh what a future that is. )

 Later,
 Kevin Picone

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