John Edser wrote:

>>JE:-
>>Exactly, but this is my argument _against_
>>Hamilton. You cannot have relative temperature
>>without an assumption of asolute temperature.
>>Nought temperature is 0 degrees Kelvin. This
>>point has never been reached but provides an
>>absolute measure of temperature. Without it,
>>just a relative celcius measure in is
>>meaningless.
>>Hamilton's rules attemptes to invalidly
>>subsitute a relative measure for an
>>absolute measure.
> 
> 
> BOH:-
> No it dosn't.
> 
> JE:-
> Rubbish. If selection at just Hamilton's gene level
> can be supposed to cause fitness altruism at the
> Darwinian organism level, then gene fitness
> and not organism fitness is being touted as
> as THE ABSOLUTE measure of fitness, isn't it?
> 
The absolute measure of fitness maybe, but not the measure of absolute 
fitness.

> 
> BOH:_
> It ONLY provides the relative measure - it only compares
> the fitnesses of the two behaviours.
> 
> JE:-
> Yes Hamilton, "ONLY provides the relative measure"
> to exactly WHAT, totally _missing_ absolute measure?
> 
No, relative to each other, not to any outside absolute measure.


> BOH:-
> I agree.  And as Hamilton was only trying to answer the question about
> relative fitness, that's all he needed.
> 
> JE:-
> "that's all he needed"!{at}#$%^&*!
> 
> Do you also agree that any rule that
> only includes a general term for
> relative fitness but utterly fails
> to include within it a general term
> for absolute fitness is just an arbitrary
> rule?
> 
No.

> The insanity of Hamilton's rule is that it does
> not exclude the possibility that as the altruistic
> gene only relatively increases compared to the wildtype
> gene, _both_ genes may be forced to become extinct. 

Why is this insane?

Bob

-- 
Bob O'Hara

Rolf Nevanlinna Institute
P.O. Box 4 (Yliopistonkatu 5)
FIN-00014 University of Helsinki
Finland
Telephone: +358-9-191 23743
Mobile: +358 50 599 0540
Fax:  +358-9-191 22 779
WWW:  http://www.RNI.Helsinki.FI/~boh/
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