Hi Ron, 
 -=> Quoting Ron Mcdermott to Dan Triplett <=-
 RM> Dan, the way I see it, the discussions on this topic are 
 RM> going poorly because everyone is talking about different
 RM> things....  
 You're right!
 RM> Every kid is going to misspell words as s/he
 RM> is learning; this is certainly invented spelling, and it
 RM> went on with "traditional" spelling lists, etc.  The idea
 RM> was that, over time, the kid would correct the errors as
 RM> words became more familiar.  The child also learned some
 They don't learn "invented spelling". It is just a stage they 
 go through on their way to and with the compliment of ....
 RM> attack skills, rules, basic phonics, etc.  Most people
 RM> trained in this way became reasonable spellers, but it is
 RM> also true that the student population today is not what it
 And still do today....
 RM> was 30-50 years ago.  Some of the difference in performance
 RM> these days is indicative of the population change as well
 RM> as other changing factors which influence performance in
 RM> other educational areas - In other words, one cannot "pin
 RM> the blame" for spelling deficiencies SOLELY on any method
 RM> changes.
 Yep!
 RM> Now... The approximated spelling "problem" which many here
 RM> refer to is NOT a natural development; it is the result of
 RM> a concerted effort, not to improve spelling, but to promote
 RM> early writing.  
 Ah but it is and THE point is that it lasts a very short time.
 
 RM> The question, to me, is WHY are we pushing
 RM> for early writing?  Are we seeing inmproved writing as a 
 RM> result?  Are we seeing greater literacy, reading levels,
 Are you then going to stop every child who picks up a pencil
 simply because they haven't been to school yet? Most early 
 writers are copying good role models (probably mum and dad 
 and older siblings) so they think they are writing too... 
 
 RM> etc?  If we're not, then why are we pushing early writing
 RM> in the first place?  I ask this because I genuinely don't
 RM> know the answer.  By forcing the issue, we are increasing
 RM> the frequency and duration of improper spelling, and this
 No. What we then have to demand is that they take care to spell
 the words they know correctly.
                               
 RM> doesn't even take into account the misapplication of the
 RM> ideas wherein correction doesn't happen and spelling lists
 RM> are simply dispensed with totally.  I haven't yet seen any
 RM> sign that this early writing results in IMPROVED spelling,
 RM> writing, etc.  Many of us HAVE seen indications, however, 
 RM> that spelling is deteriorating, and the disasterous, and
 RM> rapid, drop on scores in California is difficult to dismiss 
 RM> as being unrelated to the implimentation of programs
 RM> related to early writing and inventive spelling.
 
 That's not what you said at the beginning of your post. What is 
 the proportion of English as a second language learners you have
 in those scores?
 Erica.
  
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