From: "Rich Gauszka" 

There is a difference in abridging one's rights and competence. There is
also the problem of accumulating more data than you can process.

If the Bush administration was so worried about catching the terrorists why
didn't they allow the Brits the extra week that was asked for in this
latest incident?  Opportunism over safety?


"Mark"  wrote in message
news:44e12da7{at}w3.nls.net...
> Rich, I don't necessarily disagree, but you've been in the forefront of
> stopping the Bush administration from effecting intelligent information
> gathering methods -- so at least we still have the Wal-Mart cashiers on
> our side, better than nothing 
>
> "Rich Gauszka"  wrote in message
> news:44e12cf9$1{at}w3.nls.net...
>>I don't have a problem with what the Wal-Mart cashier did. It's been
>>reported that in some of these incidents the suspects purchasing the cell
>>phones were questioned by law enforcement multiple times  over a week
>>prior to the headline making arrests.  It just seems that in this day and
>>age of Bush's information gathering steamroller that there is still no
>>smooth flow of information between agencies. This is looking like an
>>incident that wasted time for those actively pursuing terrorists.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Mark"  wrote in message
>> news:44e12722$1{at}w3.nls.net...
>>> Well, however this whole brouhaha turns out, I'm glad the Wal-Mart
>>> cashier called the cops, I'm glad the cops followed-up and detained the
>>> guys. If I got pulled over with lots of cash and 100s of pre-paid cell
>>> phones bought in a variety of Wal-Marts thousands of miles from my home,
>>> I'd expect to be taken in too. >> facts that seem to overlap a couple of different arrests in
the thread>
>>>
>>> "Gary Britt"  wrote in message
>>> news:44e12329{at}w3.nls.net...
>>>> Rich, the claim below they are being sold to local gas
stations, etc.
>>>> seems completely insane to me.  Why buy from gas station
when you can
>>>> buy the same phone for less at Wal-Mart.  If the phones were being
>>>> converted to something not sold at Wal-Mart or being
shipped overseas,
>>>> then at least the "its just an innocent
business" claim might make some
>>>> sense, but it makes no sense at all that Arabs in Dearborn
would rather
>>>> pay higher price to gas station than buy from the Wal-Mart
next door.
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>> "Rich Gauszka"  wrote
in message
>>>> news:44e11943{at}w3.nls.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mike N." 
wrote in message
>>>>> news:7452e2dfqdtfhug4v0oc9cd4hrfbapn4r5{at}4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 19:34:47 -0400, "Gary
Britt" 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Where are these cell phones sold, USA or
overseas?  Whose buying them
>>>>>>>rather
>>>>>>>than go to the local Wal-Mart themselves?  Why
only Arabs exploiting
>>>>>>>this
>>>>>>>"opportunity"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  And if they are indeed reselling them, what a
bunch of dummies as
>>>>>> businessmen!   Why buy in qty 1,000 retail when
they could get a
>>>>>> significant break on that quantity by buying
directly from Tracfone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  More likely, they are just adding a level of
obfuscation for
>>>>>> purchasing
>>>>>> and reselling untraceable cell phones.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I thought Gary Britt  loved the entrepreneur spirit?
>>>>> 'An independent entrepreneur will buy the phones for,
say, $8 each. He
>>>>> will sell them to a distributor for $12, making a $4
profit. Multiply
>>>>> that by a thousand -- about the number of phones the three men
>>>>> arrested in Caro bought in total -- and you have a
$4,000 profit.'
>>>>>
>>>>>
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060814/NEWS05/608140339
/1007/NEWS05
>>>>> It may seem unusual for someone to buy hundreds of
cell phones at a
>>>>> time, but metro Detroiters of Middle Eastern descent
say that practice
>>>>> is part of a long tradition of entrepreneurship in Arab-American
>>>>> communities.
>>>>>
>>>>> From Dearborn to Troy to Sterling Heights, Arab
Americans are a major
>>>>> part of the cell phone business in southeastern
Michigan. At least
>>>>> half of the cell phone businesses in the region are
owned by metro
>>>>> Detroiters of Arab or Chaldean descent, say business
owners in the
>>>>> industry. Many new immigrants or emerging businessmen
earn money by
>>>>> buying the cell phones and then selling them to gas stations,
>>>>> distributors or stores.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's called capitalism, Arab Americans say.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Michigan, "you can talk to almost any family
in the Arab-American
>>>>> community, and they all have some relative in the cell phone
>>>>> business," said Warren David, a Lebanese American
from Northville.
>>>>>
>>>>> If police knew that, perhaps five Arab Americans would
not have been
>>>>> arrested last week on terrorism charges after they
bought hundreds of
>>>>> cell phones, said David, who recently sold his cell
phone business to
>>>>> an Iraqi American.
>>>>>
>>>>> "If they understood us a little more, they might
not jump the gun so
>>>>> quickly," he said.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Ohio on Tuesday, a store employee called police after two
>>>>> 20-year-old Arab-American men from Dearborn bought a
large number of
>>>>> cell phones at a Wal-Mart. The same thing happened
Friday in Caro
>>>>> after three Arab-American men bought 80 phones at one store.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the Ohio case, Osama Abulhassan and Ali Houssaiky
were just trying
>>>>> to make money by buying cell phones so they could sell them to a
>>>>> distributor for a profit, family members said.
>>>>>
>>>>> "The two young men were engaged in a perfectly
legal practice based on
>>>>> the most fundamental principles of our free market
economy," the
>>>>> Abulhassan family said in an e-mail.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's how the practice sometimes works, said Nasser
Beydoun, head of
>>>>> the Dearborn-based American Arab Chamber of Commerce:
>>>>>
>>>>> An independent entrepreneur will buy the phones for,
say, $8 each. He
>>>>> will sell them to a distributor for $12, making a $4
profit. Multiply
>>>>> that by a thousand -- about the number of phones the three men
>>>>> arrested in Caro bought in total -- and you have a
$4,000 profit.
>>>>>
>>>>> The distributor then will sell the phones at a higher
price to gas
>>>>> station owners, who in turn sell them at a marked-up price.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many people of Arab descent "are traders by
nature," Beydoun said.
>>>>> "That entrepreneurship should not be linked to
terrorism just because
>>>>> they are Arab American."
>>>>>
>>>>> For more than 100 years, the Arab-American community
has tried to turn
>>>>> a profit on everything from trinkets to watches to
electronic goods.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the 1980s, David recalled, blue jeans were the hot
item. And his
>>>>> Lebanese immigrant grandfather often bought and sold
hosiery to make a
>>>>> living.
>>>>>
>>>>> In metro Detroit, Arab Americans are believed to
dominate the cell
>>>>> phone industry not only on the retail level, but also
when it comes to
>>>>> wholesale dealers and accessory stores. Two of the
area's biggest cell
>>>>> phone chains --  Wireless Toyz and Wireless Giant --
are owned by
>>>>> Iraqi Chaldeans.
>>>>>
>>>>> This practice also occurs with other goods. In
Dearborn, for example,
>>>>> Arab-American entrepreneurs buy and sell incense, lighters and
>>>>> flowers.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's a concern that what happened in Ohio and Caro could hurt
>>>>> Arab-American business owners.
>>>>>
>>>>> Abed Ayoub, 26, a Dearborn resident who often works on
legal issues,
>>>>> said he knows of at least two cases in recent months
in which FBI
>>>>> agents questioned Arab Americans after they purchased
large numbers of
>>>>> cell phones from stores.
>>>>>
>>>>> "They're just doing business, nothing more,"
Ayoub said.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

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