John Edser wrote:

>  
> 
>>>BOH:-
>>>But, to continue to try and get an answer, how do you decide whether a 
>>>pattern is random or not?
> 
> 
>>>JE:-
>>>By definition.
> 
> 
>>>BOH:-
>>>To give a concrete example, how would you decide whether the following 
>>>sequence of 30 numbers is random?
>>> 2  6  2  1  5  8  1  4  2  3  5  4  6  6  5  5  5  7  4  5  7  4  3 10 
>>> 6  3  6  7  6  5
> 
> 
>>>JE:-
>>>By definition.
> 
> 
>>BOH:-
>>Which makes it impossible to refute.
> 
> 
>>JE:-
>>Incorrect! ANY definition provided 
>>must be a part of refutable proposition
>>of nature, i.e. be a part of a fully
>>testable scientific _theory_.
> 
> 
> BOH:-
> Ah, so you do have to have a process - that's 
> what the theory defines.
> 
> JE:-
> I have always suggested that a process 
> must be assumed to cause any perceptual
> a pattern and not the reverse. 
> 
Right, so you can't decide decide whether a pattern is random without 
some reference to a process.


>>JE:-
>>The normal definition of a random process as any process that
>>can only cause a random pattern, 
> 
> 
> BOH:-
> Not true - you're the only person I've seen ever using that definition.
> 
> JE:-
> The above working definition is just an epistemological 
> necessity. 

Only within your epistemology.

We now seem to have moved a long way from evolutionary biology, but as 
it now appears that you agree with me on the point I was trying to make, 
it seems sensible to draw this thread to a close.

Bob

-- 
Bob O'Hara

Rolf Nevanlinna Institute
P.O. Box 4 (Yliopistonkatu 5)
FIN-00014 University of Helsinki
Finland
Telephone: +358-9-191 23743
Mobile: +358 50 599 0540
Fax:  +358-9-191 22 779
WWW:  http://www.RNI.Helsinki.FI/~boh/
---
þ RIMEGate(tm)/RGXPost V1.14 at BBSWORLD * Info{at}bbsworld.com

---
 * RIMEGate(tm)V10.2áÿ* RelayNet(tm) NNTP Gateway * MoonDog BBS
 * RgateImp.MoonDog.BBS at 1/5/04 3:14:29 PM