"William Morse"  wrote in message
news:buqgb6$2svo$1{at}darwin.ediacara.org...
> Anthony Cerrato  wrote in
news:bumqcv$1n85$1
> {at}darwin.ediacara.org:
>
> >
> > "Robert Karl Stonjek"  wrote in
> > message news:bukvpo$166b$1{at}darwin.ediacara.org...
>
> >> But Hauser says the top number of words they have
learned
> > is in the
> >> 300-to-400 range, which doesn't even compare to the
> > 60,000-word vocabulary
> >> of a typical high school graduate.
> >>
> >> Apes "have learned signs that refer to things in their
> > world, like food and
> >> actions," Hauser says. "They could label things and
could
> > sign 'apple' or
> >> 'pond.' But what they couldn't say is, 'My apple is in
the
> > pond' or 'on the
> >> chair.' "
>
> >
> > Hmm...also very interesting. But doesn't the fact that
the
> > differences in vocal apparatuses in, say, man vs.
monkey,
> > limits monkey speech capability, play a significant part
in
> > capacity for both word memory and grammer rules? IOW, if
> > you're not able to use it, you lose it?
>
>
> > Seems to me, that it the limited vocal capacity in
animals
> > is the main reason their brains never evolved to the
level
> > of
> > organizational complexity which would make them
efficiently
> > utilize a large number of words and grammer rules.
>
>
> Seals have good vocal capacity but don't utilize grammar.
Parrots have
> excellent vocal capacity but don't utilize grammar. Both
of those animals
> have need of conscious breath control, and the vocal
capacity is probably
> a side effect. The vocal capacity in humans is most likely
a result of
> grammar, not a cause of it.

Yes, I agree that grammer is the main point here--I just
added
word memory to also address Hauser's comment, "...the top
number of words (animals) have learned is in the 300-to-400
range, which doesn't even compare to the 60,000-word
vocabulary of a typical high school graduate."

As for vocal capacity, I may be wrong, but I have always
understood that, due to the unique morphology and
functioning of the voice box and associated organs, the
ability for speech in humans is fundamentally different from
that of all animals (I'm not sure if this is what you mean
by "conscious breath control"...are you saying breathing in
parrots etc is not autonomic as in humans? Although, humans
also have some conscious control over breathing also, no?) I
just did a quick google on "unique human speech" and found
one interesting ref. re: uniqueness;
http://fusion.mssm.edu/media/content.cfm?storynum=139
 --and there seem to be others re: function, particularly
with reapect to vowel capability, and many of course wrt the
special evolution of human brain organization, etc., for
speech. I would guess the latter is the really important
factor in our differences with animals, but this is perhaps
too big a subject for easy discussion here, unless there are
some workers in this field here to help out. Regards,
.....tonyC

> Yours,
>
> Bill Morse
>
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