From: Gene McAloon 

It goes without saying that Bush should never have invaded Iraq in the
first place, but he did. We are now there whether we like it or not. What
would you recommend, that another dictator be put in place - by us? What
choice do we have
other than to try to establish a working democracy there?  None that I can
see. It may not work. Even after establishing a democracy there, the Iraqis
themselves might undo it. Perhaps the usual military takeover.

I don't agree that other states in the area would be opposed to democracy
in Iraq. Some would, but not all. The principal reason you have
dictatorships in that area in most cases is because they are supported by
the upper and middle classes as a bulwark against religious fundamentalists
who are seen as threats to their power as exercised through the
dictatorship. It is analogous to dictatorships in much of Latin American
wherein the upper and middle classes support dictatorship as a bulwark
against perceived leftist peasants.

If the upper and middle classes can be persuaded through a democratized
Iraq that is it possible to do without a dictator they would be less
inclined to want
them.  There is a chance to use Iraq for that purpose. Granted, the example
of Iraq wouldn't work everywhere because Iraq is already a primarily
secular society with a notable dearth of Islamic fundamentalist sentiment.
But at least it would be a start.

In any case, I don't see any alternative. We are in Iraq now whether we
like it or not and I believe defeatist attitudes are not very helpful in
getting us out of there with our reputation redeemed by leaving something
behind of which we can be proud.

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:22:41 -0500, "John Beamish"
 wrote:

>While I am predisposed to preferring a democracy, I think that the real
>desired goal is long-term stability and that long-term goal is not
>necessarily achieved by imposing a democracy on Iraq.
>
>Or, in other words, given the historical record between the three major
>groups in Iraq, I don't see an imposed democratic government (republican or
>otherwise) as the best "next step."  Your own references to
the animosity
>(is visceral hatred too strong a phrase?) argue against it.
>
>In addition, I'm not certain that many of the other countries in the region
>would like to see a democracy imposed on Iraq.  For them, the contagion of
>"people choosing their own government" must seem deeply
troubling to the
>leadership cabals and, therefore, it is in their interests to foment as much
>discord as possible.
>
>The immediately imposition of democracy benefits Mr. Bush during the run-up
>to the next elections but I don't see it benefiting the Iraqis.  Far from
>it.  And if it fails, well, your final sentence is correct:  I don't want to
>think about it, either.
>
>
>"Gene McAloon"  wrote in message
>news:6k9j005n15c4oaeh3tjvmddd161j9vigkl{at}4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 11:53:38 -0500, "John Beamish"

>wrote:
>>
>> >No ... the US proposals are the only viable soluition as far as American
>> >interests are concerned.
>>
>> Very much the contrary. It is in the interests of everyone, the US, Iraq,
>the
>> Arab world and the larger world that Iraq be made a viable, working
>democracy.
>> That cannot be done by pandering to one ethnic group at the expense of the
>> others given the enormous fissiparous tendencies that historically have
>riven
>> that country.
>>
>> That is a central fact that determines how the country is to be organized.
>> Simply giving power to the majority Shiites will not cut it. There must,
>> absolutely must, be a constitution in place that guarantees protection for
>all
>> ethnic groups. Without it, you simply set up a government that guarantees
>> another revolution and another dictator.
>>
>> It is long past time that people give up their obsession with
>Bush-the-war-maker
>> and start to think of what is best for all concerned now. As much as I
>despise
>> Bush and everything he represents, nonetheless his prescription for post
>war
>> Iraq is a good one and should be supported. Babbling on mindlessly about
>> democracy without a constitution that protects the rights of minorities
>doesn't
>> cut it. Babbling on equally mindlessly about alleged US interests only
>doesn't
>> cut it either.
>>
>> Forget your hatred of Bush for a moment and look at the facts. Simply
>opposing
>> everything Bush wants in this context is not very useful or even very
>bright.
>> Unless, of course, you would like the whole Bush-Iraq thing to fail, thus
>> probably guaranteeing failure of his re-election chances.  No one wants to
>see
>> that ass out of office more than I, but there are larger issues here
>beyond
>> whether the US is saddled with another four years of Bush extremism.  We
>> Americans can survive that easily enough, but what happens to the Arab
>world if
>> the reconstituted Iraq fails?  I don't like to think about that.
>>
>

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