-=> JIM HOLSONBACK wrote to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE <=-

 JH> Hello, Wayne.  I overheard you talking to Greg Easthom about- -

Read whole message before starting a reply as it may economize
your time.

 
 GE> The typical indication of the wrong type being used is a system giving
 GE> error beeps and not booting as it cannot use the memory installed. The
 GE> system will not proceed past POST (Power On Self Test). 2-clock was
 GE> only used in 66 MHz systems. All PC 100 and PC 133 memory is 4-clock
 GE> only.

 JH> Earth to Wayne -  saying "2-clock was only used in 66 MHz systems"
 JH> isn't the same as saying that '66 MHz systems can only use 2-clock', is
 JH> it?

Nope and I've finally tracked down enough information to make an
informed choice about what to do with limited resources, but there's a
catch.

 WC> Thanks, that was what was holding me up from committing to purchase
 WC> and it seems I was right to do so as this machine's buss runs
 WC> at 66 :-(

 JH> Heck, Wayne, you started this whole discussion about your HP machine
 JH> while mentioning you wanted some  PC100 memory to upgrade it - - I told
 JH> you along the way that Celeron 433 runs at 66 MHz, and that PC66 memory
 JH> would work in there, and now you get all hung up over that??

I knew all along it ran at 66 MHz it's the RAM that was in question.
In the good old days, say 4 years ago manufactures and retailers
put enough information on their web sites where one could do
all one needed to do to research compatibilty right there, not so today.
For example: Best Buy locally offers 128 Meg sticks at 50 bucks a throw,
it's PNY brand and claims to work on 66 Meg systems as well
as 100 and 133. I'm inclined to believe them however balk at that price.
They do NOT provide sufficient detail in specifications to
match it up with the "DIMM SDRAM specification revision 1.0"
PDF file I downloaded nor do they even say if their stick is
tin or gold pin.
Further I can look at CompUSA's web site and see PNY memory there
as well also lacking detailed information at near half the price but it
_does not_ claim compatibility with 66 MHz.
To further annoy the cheaper place, CompUSA provides an actual
manufaturers number while Best buy which claims compatible memory
at twice the price uses in house numbering for their parts so
I cannot cross reference and comparison shop.
Neither site says a thing about 2 or 4 clock nor is there a link
to such information.
I can understand your exasperation at my caution but due to
exteremely limited resources and mobility problems I must make the
most of my resources both financial and physical.
Lacking a credit card just getting to Best Buy to lay down a
deposit for an item that must be ordered is not a trivial task.
I've got X amount of dollars and Y amount of physical
stamina and when either are gone that's end game.

 JH> Your above is very likely an incorrect conclusion. Greg's source
 JH> didn't say that 66MHz systems used _only_ 2-clock, did it?  AFAICT from
 JH> Kingston memory website, they are selling PC100 sticks as memory
 JH> expansion sticks for your precise model of HP Pavilion.  So if those
 JH> would work in there, and "all Pc100 and Pc133 memory is
4-clock only"
 JH> per Greg's source, then your machine should support 4-clock PC100
 JH> without any problem, shouldn't it?

I follow the rational but again it's very frustrating getting all
information in one place to say this item will work in this
machine. In point of fact the PNY memory that's guaranteed
to work on a 66 MHz bus is PC133 but that's the 50 dollar
stick at Best Buy that uses in house numbering that may very well
match a manufacturers numbered stick at CompUSA but with inadaquate
info I can't say for sure can I?
No place in the H.P.manual does it mention 2 or 4 clock nor is that
question answered on their web site where they do refer you to
Crucial Memory.
I filled out a survey emailed me by H.P. explaining my frustration
with their site.

 JH> BIR, this "foundling" machine came to you with a 32 and a
64MB stick in
 JH> there.  Have you taken a look at those sticks and seen what may be
 JH> written on any stickers and such which may be attached in order to try
 JH> and figger out what types of sticks could be used to upgrade it to the
 JH> full potential 2 - 128 MB sticks?

I had one out one time because it was improperly seated when I first
got the machine but was too excited to even _have_ the machine I did
not at that time take advantage to look at or write down the information
that may be on the stick. I shall have to remove one again for a
look but am quite sure it wll be "Crucial Memory" which is the higher
priced stick. Other info available from that stick must await another
day when I'm up to the task of removing it as currently I'm too beat
to exercise proper caution.
If overtired I seem to attempt to rush things putting what I've got
at risk.
I used to work 11 hours a day
6 days a week heavy physical labor but just two days ago
it took me from quarter to 9 A.M. to almost 5 P.M. to shower,
walk the dog 2/3rds of a block and answer one email and make 8
fidonet posts.

 WC> As to documentation in the manual for an H.P., ha.
 WC> Guess I'll snag up some cheap EDO from Ebay for the NEC and see what I
 WC> can get going here while waiting for some of this rather unobtainium
 WC> SDRAM to make an appearance.

 JH> Change course and now concentrate on working toward upgrading the SIMMS
 JH> in the NEC if you like, but I don't think that SDRAM memory which would
 JH> work for upgrading the HP is all that hard to find.

You're quite likely right but you may not be in the relatively dire
straights I'm in regarding how I must apportion my resources
with great care.
For quite some time I've been eligible for assisted living but am
attempting to forestall that until after my dog passes which
is becoming ever more questionable as an achievable goal.
Great dog, Pit Bull, and I'm very loyal to him because he's so good.
We read each other quite well and it cracked me up when we
negotiated the time before I'd take him out a couple days ago.
Told the dog 30 minutes and he snorted three times
which is his way of insisting, I repeated same as did the dog
than said fifteen minutes at which point he quietly waited.
I'm consistent so the dog knows 15 minutes means less
time than 30.

 JH> P.S.
 WC> I did download the DIMM SDRAM specification revision 1.0
 WC> as a PDF to see what I may be able to squeeze into the H.P.
 WC> but the darned timing spec's on the PC100 and PC133 seem to be awfully
 WC> picky about whatn they'll accept and still present valid data.

 JH> What a surprise! :-).

Yet that document while extensive and comprehensive is not much help
as though it cautions about what you need information about what
a stick's specifications are are lacking at the retailer end of things. 
This single post took me an hour to reply to.
Previous to this occassion and as regards the NEC machine and the
486 I'd had no difficulty upgrading with confidence.
With limited resources I have to make the call is it cost effective
to throw 100 dollars at this machne or look for another used
one with existing components to swap about.
Now I still have to find out if this machine is using USB 1 or 2 as that
also isn't on the web site support page nor in the manual however
I note the Jameco catalog has a PCI plugin card that provides the faster
protocol of type 2 at 14 dollars. This I'm looking at to decide whether
or not to buy an internal CD RW drive or external  USB drive that may
be used on both machines with ease.
I appreciate all your time and effort on my behalf and now have
to make the call as to how to proceed. I know good and well
sales people will sell you anything on hand as a few years ago
I straighted out a lady similarly exasperated as am I
about the fact that her 486 machine required fast page mode
RAM instead of the stick of EDO sold to her.
She emailed her thanks when all went well.
However back then everything was explicitly spelled out in
the manual or the web sites!
Today it seems retailers appear biased against upgrades in favor of
selling a whole new box.
 
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