RSt> 'quite a bit of evidence'? Enlighten me, please,

RS> There is also quite a bit of evidence of lots of people
RS> being quite happy to bludge on the dole/welfare for as
RS> long as we are silly enough to keep paying that out too.

RSt> (anecdotal stuff does *not* count).

RS> You can proclaim that if you want Russ, it counts anyway. I happened
RS> to know one particular person who has bludged off the dole for TWENTY
RS> years, has never actually ever worked since he was booted out of school
RS> twenty years ago. He is very proud of the fact that he has only ever
RS> paid $1.25 or something in income tax in his entire life. He aint alone.

RSt> I don't doubt this, it may well be true. However, let's look at the logic:

You wouldnt know what 'logic' was if it bit you on the bum Russ.

RSt> (1) I know a man who was unemployed and didn't want to work.

You asked for evidence that some operate like that. Thats evidence.

RSt> (2) There are unemployed people.

Hardly what you might call some shocking revelation Russ.

RSt> (4) Unemployed people do not want to work.

Whoops, guess who cant even count to 4 successfully.
That must do GREAT things for your employment prospects Russ.

RSt> Can you say the word "generalisation"?

I can also say the words 'mindless' and 'bullshit' too Russ.

RS> There is a wealth of evidence for example of people rocking up to
RS> the Sunshine Coast etc to just live on the dole. Nimbin has also
RS> been notorious for having the vast bulk of the people there bludging
RS> off welfare after having chosen to move there. One of them was even
RS> silly enough to brag about it on 60 Minutes, she reconed she should
RS> be paid double coz she claimed she was looking after the environment.
RS> The Minister for Dole Bludgers promptly went apoplectic with rage.

RSt> I DON'T deny that some are rorting the system -

Oh good, you would look pretty damned silly if you tried to.
You demanded evidence, you got some evidence. Your problem Russ.

RSt> if there is a scam to be had, some people will find a way;

They will indeed. THATS what some have been saying Russ.

RSt> human nature I suppose.

It is indeed. Pity that thats just what we have been saying Russ.

RSt> I DO have trouble with:

Your problem Russ.

RSt> (A) Your 'wealth of evidence'. Where?

Get off your bum and chase up more if you want more. Your problem Russ.

RSt> (B) 'the vast bulk of the people there bludging off welfare'
RSt> What are your figures and from where did you get them?

I told you that, no point in just mindlessly asking the same question
over and over again, you fool absolutely no one at all doing that.

RSt> As above, I AGREE that some are probably rorting the system

As above, there is plenty of evidence of lots of it going on Russ.

RSt> (I do not think the figure is quantifiable, though, for various reasons).

Depends entirely on what you call quantifiable Russ. Yes, it may
indeed be quite difficult to put a precise figure on it. Pity that
thats not actually necessary if you have said that heaps of it
goes on, and there is evidence to substantiate THAT statement.

Put up a better screen of bullshit, we can see
straight thru what you are putting up right now.

RS> I cannot however, like you, tar all the unemployed with the same brush.

I never did anything remotely like tar all unemployed with the same
brush. I have in fact said very explicitly that the days of a job for
life are long gone now, its completely inevitable that almost EVERYONE
will be at some time between jobs. No one has ever claimed that all
those who are for a time not working, are dole bludgers. Many dont
even put their hand out for the dole, so they clearly cant actually be
dole bludgers can they ? The fancy name for that stuff in the official
statistics is the participation rate. You can look the numbers up anytime.

RSt>> Sources appreciated.

RS> The stats on the number on the dole etc are published periodically,
RS> it really is rather interesting to look at the specific places where
RS> you can bludge on the dole in maximum comfort. Or rather obscene actually.

RSt> You didn't answer my question.

Fraid I did Russ. I told you the numbers are published periodically.
If you arent prepared to get off your arse and look them up, your problem.

RS> Be interesting to see if the new government rips that feather bed away.

RSt> Irrelevant.

Nope, it aint irrelevant if they pull the plug on some dole
bludgers. Certainly nothing like irrelevant to the dole bludger
affected. If we do see a significant drop in those receiving
the dole, we will have excellent evidence on dole bludgers too.

RSt> So there IS a safety net to help us when we are "inevitably
RSt> unemployed", but we shouldn't avail ourselves of it?

RS> Yes, you should make your own provision for the inevitable times when
RS> you are between jobs and not spend everything you earn while working.

RSt> Low-income earners would probably not be able to do this.

Thats complete an UTTER crap Russ. It really is quite interesting
to look at the official statistics on the household expenditure of
the 'low income earners', where they spend their money. There is an
AMAZING level of discretionary expenditure on fast food, cigarettes,
video rental, etc etc etc. They CHOOSE to spend on that stuff.

RSt> What would you suggest for them?

Give up smoking might be a hand start. Save that to use when between jobs.
Many of the 'low income earners' actually have more than one income anyway
so the other obvious way to handle the time a particular person spends
between jobs is to just live within the income thats still coming in.

RSt> As for me, I don't mind paying tax for an albeit imperfect welfare system.

Thats entirely your choice. You might just find that most feel otherwise.

RSt> After seeing various countries first-hand, I am
RSt> grateful to have the system, as I am with Medicare.

Well, medicare is rather different, its not welfare, its just a different
way of doing health care, just like say government schools are a choice too.

No one accuses people of bludging off government education.
We have chosen to have quite a bit of that coz we want it like that.

RS> They do indeed, and plenty essentially volunteer to live like that.

RSt>> 'plenty'. Enlighten me again... please quantify 'plenty'.

RS> You know what the word means. No use trying to pretend it doesnt happen.

RSt> I'm not - I agree that it certainly CAN (and probably does) happen.

And the normal usage of the word plenty is very well understood. If you
dont understand what it means, buy a dictionary or use one down the library.

RSt> I just don't believe in pulling a quantifier from thin
RSt> air and using it to validate a basically dodgy argument.

But you clearly do believe in this sort of pathetically mindless
bullshit instead. Pity it fools absolutely no one at all.

RSt> How do you *know* Jon doesn't try very hard to find work?

RS> That was rather obvious from his silly comment about '10 applications',
RS> he clearly is just satisfying the bureaucratic requirement to continue
RS> to receive the dole, it aint about counting applications, its about
RS> putting your brain into gear and increasing your employability etc.

RSt> As ridiculous a generalisation as I have ever seen.

Pity it aint a generalisation, you need that dictionary bad Russ.
Your bullshitting skills need heaps of work. Likely there are still
some wanky 'training' schemes you can enrol in to work on those.

RSt> Your logic really is underwhelming at times, Rod.

You wouldnt actually know what logic was if it bit you on the bum
Russ. Presumably that considerably stuffs you employability too.
@EOT:

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