CHARLES BEAMS spoke of The Real Story 2 to DAN TRIPLETT on 10-08-96
CB>Responding to a message by Dan, to Charles on ...
CB>Okay, let's presume for a minute that the whole language approach 
CB>you use is not based in the "self-esteem now" theory, and agree that 
CB>you do challenge the children you teach.  If we have standards, 
CB>e.g., that all children will be reading at the third grade level by 
CB>the end of third grade, then how can you accept less from some 
CB>children than from others? 
I don't know that we do accept less.  But no matter what we "accept" 
there will be some children who fall below expectations, some who rise 
above, and many who fall in the middle.  
 Don't we need to get even the slower 
CB>kids up to speed if we're going to keep them on grade level? 
Yes!  And tutoring often helps.  In our school we have a home liaison 
who goes into the home and helps parents help their kids.  I have a 
child who hardly talked one year.  He could not write his name and had 
difficulty understanding directions.  We did home intervention and found 
that dad didn't have an educational nurturing environment (there was no 
mom and the kids were allowed to watch tv and play but there were no 
stories, no "educational" activities.)  After a few short months this 
kid was talking up a storm and learned to write his name.  Today he is 
at grade level and doing very well.
One thing though:  No matter how far behind a child gets, no amount of 
"pushing" concepts at a child will help if the "just don't get it."  Do 
we give up?  No!  We continue to work with that child.  But children 
develop on a continuum and we can't get them to point d until they pass 
through a, b, and c first.  It has always been this way.  
I am NOT saying lower standards.  But establishing standards does not 
guarantee that meeting those standards for every child will now somehow 
magically occur.
  
 I know 
CB>kindergarten is early - a lot of what is done is readiness rather 
CB>than actual reading and writing, but a certain degree of progress 
CB>must be achieved if the kids are to be ready for first grade, am I 
CB>not right? 
You are very right....
 When you adjust your standards for a child based on your 
CB>perception of their "ability," are your adjustments still going to 
CB>keep the child on track to make grade level?
I don't adjust my "standard" for the average kindergartner.  But I do 
have realistic expectations for certain children.  I would love it if 
all my kids could meet the minimum expectations for leaving kindergarten 
(writing one's name, alphabet recognition, counting up to 25 one-to-one 
correspondence, phonemic awareness, social skills, etc.)  But the bottom 
line is I know from experience that some kids will not make it.  Andrew 
won't make it.  He is slightly retarded.  I hope he can write his name 
by the end of the year.  My kindergarten standards are the same, my 
reasonable expectations vary.  My expectations for Ashley is that she be 
reading at a first-grade level by the end of the year.  I think she is 
capable of writing complete sentences (with some approximated spellings 
hehe) on her own.  She is well on her way. 
 
CB> 
CB>DT>If it is really boring then you had better care because if the
CB>DT>child  isn't engaged in the lesson you are wasting your breath.
CB> 
CB>Some days it is boring - and that's a fact, Jack.  Virtually every 
CB>student I've known has been bored at some point in their education 
CB>but they were still expected to learn. 
Agreed and at the higher levels you can have higher expectations 
regarding boredom.  I have kids tell me they are bored and I say "Find 
something to do that is not boring."  If we are doing "work" and a child 
does not want to do the work I say "If you don't do your work during 
work time, you won't get to play during play time.  I have high 
expectations (even for Andrew) when it comes to participation in all 
activities.  I run a rather tight ship.  (because I don't want the ship 
to sink!!)  
 Not only do the kids get 
CB>bored, but some days I get bored working - I get bored writing 
CB>plans, I get bored grading tests and sometimes I even get bored 
CB>teaching a lesson.  I do my job because it is my livelihood - I like 
CB>it better than most anything else I can imagine doing, but that does 
CB>not mean that there aren't times it gets boring.  Life is like that. 
CB> If one expects everything in life to be entertaining, then they are 
CB>in for a big disappointment.
Yes....and I do agree with this.  But children must somehow be motivated 
to get engaged with the work or our efforts are useless to that child.  
In some cases it's just impossible to get a student engaged.  I am not 
saying we need to "entertain" them but there is no harm in being 
entertaining.  I am an entertaining teacher (a survival technique 
required when working with twenty-five 5 year olds).  But not every 
moment of my day is entertaining.  I do try to make all my activities 
age appropriate and have a specific learning outcome in mind.  
CB> 
CB>DT>Not true....in any given elementary grade level we can have up to
CB>DT>two  years of developmental difference.  I think that what's 
CB>DT>important is  seeing
CB>DT>growth and continued progress in each child.   
CB>We disagree.  
You don't think growth and continue progress is important??  
Unless a child is labeled (LD, ADD, MR, etc.) and has 
CB>an IEP that says otherwise, all children must be held accountable 
CB>for the standards that have been established for that grade level.  
CB>If we do NOT make them accountable, they will fall into a pit which 
CB>they will never crawl out of.
This boy happens to be MR....but that is beside the point.  Many 
children are borderline and do not qualify because they score a few 
points too high on certain tests.  In other cases the parents do not 
want the child labeled and so it goes...
Dan
--- GEcho 1.11+
---------------